XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism
XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality
From: me@nothere.biz
On 02-November-2015 7:25 AM, mur@. wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:02:43 +1100, felix_unger wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:26:35 -0400, mur@. wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 13:12:03 -0400, "M.I.Wakefield" cluelessly maundered:
>>> .
>>>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:06 -0400, mur@. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:13:32 -0600, David Johnston
wrote:
>>>>> .
>>>>>> On 8/18/2015 8:52 PM, mur wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:49:45 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> On 8/11/2015 11:42 AM, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:33:30 -0600, David Johnston
wrote:
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 22:18:51 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:14:34 -0600, David Johnston <
avid@block.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 31 Jul 2015 13:03:11 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:32:45 -0400, Vincent Maycock
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:41:17 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 17:12:10 -0400, Vincent Maycock
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:31:46 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 20:04:29 -0400, Vincent Maycock
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Jul 2015 22:18:54 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:49:05 -0400, Vincent Maycock
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:55:01 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 15:57:18 -0400, Vincent Maycock
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:20:49 -0400, mur wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try to explain WHAT type of evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any kind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Footprints in the sand or snow?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you would of course be called on personally
to verify that they were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made by God, since you're such an authority. Tell us
all how you would know they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were the real thing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know; but remember, mur I'm not looking for
"proof" here, just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. If people were always saying, "Oh, hey,
look there's some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> footprints in the snow again; probably God just made
those footprints,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I was just talking to him in prayer, and he said
he was nearby."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tell us also how you know he didn't already leave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> footprints a thousand years ago, or do other less
pathetic things to show of his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He might have, but let's stay with what we can see and
experience
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than made-up ideas that go "how do we know
...??" and so on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why shouldn't he feel that the footprints and
other evidence he left a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thousand years ago were good enough that he doesn't have
to keep providing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over and over again?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A video-tape of God on the evening news?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Being an authority on this tell us how you would
also verify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> authenticity of a video "tape", and what you imagine
should be on it. What sort
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sound track? What sort of narration?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking David Muir from ABC World News would say
something like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And in other news today, God was seen flying through
the sky and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walking on water."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would consider that to be good evidence, and possibly
even proof,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on the circumstances, that God exists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my pov he would feel justified to think he
doesn't need to come perform
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tricks like that in an attempt to persuade people he
apparently doesn't care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That doesn't sound like the God of the Bible ("not caring
about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people"),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My impression is that he doesn't care about some
people. What makes you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think he cares about every one of them?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's standard Christian theology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In contrast to that some Christians believe God will
send other Christians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Hell. I heard people in Methodist and Baptist churches
say Catholics aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians and will be sent to Hell. In a Church of God I
heard a preacher tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the congregation Mormons aren't Christian. I don't believe
God would send his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own people to Hell, and maybe not even those of you who work
against him but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure can't think of any good reason why he should care about
people like you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and things I've read in the Bible indicate that he doesn't.
If you think he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should give a shit about you though, I'm sure it would be
good fun to see you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to explain why so please make an attempt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In standard Christian theology, God cares about the lost but
has other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things to contend with that prevent him from helping them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> omnipotent being should be able to change it for the
better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe omnipotence is not possible. Why do you
believe it is?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't believe in it, but I do think the concept is
logically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coherent, if you construct logical worlds where A is not
equal to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try doing it. So far it just sounds like more bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This comes from the "rock so big you can't use it" paradox,
which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reduces to the question of can God cause A and (not A) to be
true at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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