XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.philosophy, sci.logic   
   XPost: alt.talk.creationism, alt.atheism   
   From: bruces42@hotmail.com   
      
   On 04/06/2016 09:07 AM, Alex W. wrote:   
   > On 05/04/2016 18:35, BruceS wrote:   
   >> On 04/05/2016 10:19 AM, Bob Officer wrote:   
   >>> Alex W.  wrote:   
   >>    
   >>>> There is, however, a secondary purpose: to oppose, counter or at least   
   >>>> mitigate the religious mindset and so to reduce its impact on all our   
   >>>> lives.  Uncontested, the god-ridden mindset will happily attempt to   
   >>>> order society from the very shape and functioning of the nation down to   
   >>>> the day to day decisions of the individual according to the spurious   
   >>>> diktats of the deity.  For all our sakes, this must not be allowed.   
   >>>   
   >>> Or the dictates of the man on the pulpit.   
   >>   
   >> IMO, it's always the man on the pulpit.  Whatever the magic book being   
   >> invoked, it's the man interpreting that book that counts.  Despite all   
   >> the horrific things in the Bible, I know of no priests who (openly)   
   >> advocate genocide, rape, slavery, etc.  Instead, the modern ones pick   
   >> and choose from the Bible passages that support their "morality", such   
   >> as it is.  The dictates of the deity are not important to the believers.   
   >   
   > I would not put too much stock in current "good" behaviour.   
   > Historically, the men in the pulpits have advocated all that, and more.   
   >   Until around 150 years ago, Christian priests routinely blessed and/or   
   > preached all of the above, and they still supported and dispensed divine   
   > blessing for some of them in living memory -- and I am not even counting   
   > the outliers of clerics espousing the attempted genocides in Germany,   
   > Bosnia and Rwanda....   
      
   I'm not disputing that at all.  There remain some Christian preachers   
   whose "morality" is still far too Biblical.  They just avoid the more   
   egregious evils promoted by the Bible.  And you're right, it wasn't   
   very long ago that more of them advocated even worse parts.  I'm just   
   saying that Christians have moved steadily away from the teachings of   
   the Bible, especially the worst parts of it.  Cafeteria Christianity is   
   a move in the right direction.  My original point was that the "diktats   
   of the deity" never matter, only the agenda of the priests, and of   
   their flocks.   
      
   > Even assuming that a leopard can change its spots, I would still be   
   > extremely confident that a conservative ideology like the world's three   
   > bible-based monotheisms will take considerably longer than a generation   
   > or three to genuinely change.   
      
   I know plenty of people my own age who are still very loyal to   
   Christianity as it's presented by their clergy.  Fortunately, I've seen   
   a lot more rebellion from their kids.  My own upbringing was Christian,   
   and while I gave up on religion about age 10 I thought my brothers and   
   sisters were still pretty observant until the last few years, when I   
   found out one by one that they'd also (more quietly) given up   
   religion.  That said, I also know people in their teens and twenties   
   who remain faithful.  I believe, and hope, that the loud and frantic   
   actions of the religious right in the U.S. recently are the death   
   throes of Christian dominance.  They realize they're an   
   ever-diminishing minority, and that no amount of hand-waving and magic   
   words will regain their supremacy.  But maybe I'm just an idealistic   
   dreamer.  Jews are so few in number, and so many of them either   
   apathetic or downright dismissive of the religion, that they hardly   
   count.  As for Muslims, that's a whole different problem.  They seem to   
   be gaining in both numbers and in adherence to the worst aspects of   
   their religion.   
      
   >>> I witnessed the froth which these warped control freaks can bring forth.   
   >>> Their monologues and pronouncements which on the TV seem to hold the   
   >>> sheep   
   >>> in thrall, changing them in an instant to lemmings running over the   
   >>> cliffs.   
   >>   
   >> Fine by me.  Let the believers "run over the cliffs".  The real problem   
   >> comes when they want to push the rest of us over the cliffs.   
   >   
   > Quite.   
   > And that is why they and their weird views cannot be left unopposed.   
      
   Agreed.  The slings and arrows of outrageous superstition need to be   
   opposed, and by being opposed, ended.  First, though, we just need to   
   ensure that they aren't foisted on us.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)