XPost: alt.flame.airlines, alt.politics.immigration, alt.airline   
   XPost: rec.travel.air, alt.travel.uk.air   
   From: devil@attglobal.net   
      
   On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 13:48:42 -0700, Matt wrote:   
      
   >   
   > "devil"  wrote in message   
   > news:pan.2004.06.27.16.36.32.543482@attglobal.net...   
   >> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 09:15:24 -0700, Matt wrote:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> > I understand the quote, just don't agree with it.  If I was born under a   
   >> > dictatorial government and lived in poverty I would not be patriotic.   
   >> > Therefore, there must be more to it than just being born in the country.   
   >> > Also, I'm sure there are millions of naturalized immigrants that   
   > wouldn't   
   >> > agree with that quote.  Otherwise an immigrant couldn't be patriotic.   
   > Why   
   >> > all the animosity about patriotism.   
   >>   
   >> My tribe is better than yours just because it's mine.  Welcome to the   
   >> beautiful world of WWI.   
   >   
   > Look....pick whatever criteria you feel is important to you   
   > and let that determine which country, or football team, or religious   
   > organization, or restaurant, or   
   > video card, or airline, or operationg system, or political organization, or   
   > WHATEVER   
   > is the "best".  If I use my personal criteria the United States is the best.   
   > Does the fact   
   > that I live here affect that decision, yes of course, but so what.   
      
   Why a need to indentify "the best?"  Which, BTW, invariably ends up being   
   *your own.*   
      
   I have lived in six different countries.  I would have a hard time   
   deciding which was *the best.*  (Probably would not be the US, which I   
   think would end up somewhere in the middle between developed and third   
   world countries, but I digress.)   
      
   >> Guess what, the world is full of countries that are not governed by   
   >> dictators and where people don't live in poverty. Most of them actually   
   >> qualify for most respect that the US.  The have respect for their   
   >> neighobrs and don't go invade and install or support dictatorships in   
   >> other countries.  And they don't condone torture.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Please name some of these countries that are so innocent.  France??   
   > Germany?? Russia??   
   > UK?? China?? Japan?? Any African or South American country??  Please, who   
   > are you kidding.   
      
   At this point in time, most of these (1) have laws that respect their   
   neighbors (the US does not); (2) they mostly don't condone/engage in   
   installing dictatorships in vassal states, (3) don't condone torture.   
      
   If you want to look back in history, then of course we all have corpses in   
   the closet.  Don't claim the US does not.  Difference is, in the US,   
   (1) the corpses are pretty fresh, and (2) while elsewhere in most   
   countries, people have come to grips with horrors of the past, the US are   
   still in denial.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)