XPost: alt.flame.airlines, alt.politics.immigration, alt.airline
XPost: rec.travel.air, alt.travel.uk.air
From: malc@gelt.org
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:39:18 -0700, "Matt"
wrote:
>"Malcolm Weir" wrote in message
>news:ergbe05haufi1tfilf686822dmvhahc2fh@4ax.com...
>> >Saudi Arabia is hardly "Westernized". I lived in Saudi Arabia for a
>couple
>> >years in the early 1980s and I don't think it has
>> >become any more "Westernized" since then.
>>
>> You fail think incorrectly. In 1990/1991 a whole bunch of Westerners
>> moved into Saudi Arabia. Perhaps you missed it? It was mentioned by
>> most of the news channels, often using the names "Desert Shield" or
>> "Desert Storm".
>>
>> Now, granted, it's not very western by our standards, but the very
>> idea of letting western troops run around the Moslem holy places is
>> very disturbing to a number of Saudis, including OBL and the majority
>> of the people who hijacked those aircraft.
>
>There were many westerners and American/British military in Saudi Arabia in
>1983 when I was there, many years before the Gulf War. The school I went to
>had a couple 1,000 students, most all of which were westerners.
Please try not to be so parochial.
Gosh. So you went to a school with 2000 students. Wow.
>Yes, then there was Desert Storm, when the troops came in to Saudi Arabia,
>but then most of them left. Saudi Arabia is no more Westernized today than
>it was 20 years ago.
No, they didn't leave, and SA *is* more westernized. That's the
point. Clearly you have no idea what *has* happened with respect to
Saudi Arabia and the west since 1991, and the very fact that you are
harping on about 1983 demonstrates that.
You clearly have no clue as to, say, what the significance of KKMC is
to many (but not all) Saudis...
>> >Either way, if you did a poll of
>> >typical Arab men
>> >throughout the region and asked why they don't like the US, do you think
>the
>> >number one reason will be:
>> >
>> >A) Because of the US support of Israel
>> >B) Because of the Westernization that is occuring in the Arab world?
>> >
>> >I think the clear answer would be A.
>>
>> Your problem is that you introduced a fallacy into your poll, which is
>> that "typical Arab men" are not the problem.
>>
>> Had you polled, say, the people who funded and carried out the attacks
>> on 9/11/2001, you'd have found the answer was "B".
>
>I disagree, but doesn't really matter.
Well, actually (a) you're wrong and (b) it's why they carried out the
attacks.
> Of course it's a combination of the two.
Not according to, say, Osama Bin Laden. But what does he know?
> But I think if
>the US did not support Isreal, then Arabs would look past the so called
>"Westernization" that you seem to think is occuring.
Which you've just claimed isn't occurring.
Still, your problem is that you seem incapable of recognizing it's NOT
IMPORTANT whether you, or I for that matter, think that Saudi Arabia
is being westernized. What *is* important is that the people who
attacked the US on 11 Sep 2001 think it is happening.
> After all part of "westernization"
>means getting
>billions and billions of dollars in oil money. They don't seem to mind that
>part of it too much.
No, because that *isn't* the westernization. Those Arab states have
been traders since before the middle ages; trading oil for billions of
dollars has damn all to do with the post-1991 establishment of US
military bases in and around Saudia Arabia.
>Matt
Malc.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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