XPost: ak.forsale, ak.forsale, alt.teen   
   From: ebaysuckss@mail.com   
      
   This is just my opinion, do your own due diligence   
   buyers beware   
      
   My opinion is ebay and paypal is full of fraud . Repeat  do not under any   
   circumstance give your checking account or credit card to these people. They   
   have figured a way to legitimize  being taken to the cleaners.  They will ,   
   can and do take your money out of your account automatically and you will be   
   left with : DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL . Whenever anyone uses that line DO   
   NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL , that should tell you, how often people needed to   
   do just that and for good reason and couldn't. That's just one tell tale   
   sign its not if, its when and for how much before your going to lose on a   
   transaction. In my estimation Ebay is full  of fraud   
   >> you have to be able to spot all the techniques to spot fraud and trust me   
   >> there are many things to look for and spot if you are going to risk   
   >> losing your money on a auction or transaction on Ebay or Paypal.   
   >> Even if you buy bad item like electronics and you use Paypal Buyer   
   >> Protection   
   >> your liable to have to get  it checked out to prove its bad, depending on   
   >> a totally subjective process that may not be consistent, and  so so far I   
   >> can't have   
   >> it checked out for less then $40dollars. Assume it only costs $30 dollars   
   >> though, Paypal certainly doesn't make this policy clear unless you read   
   >> small print and your automatically going to be out that if you complain   
   >> ..so ultimately buyer is not protected after shipping even with   
   >> paypal protection. Without paypal protection your even taking a bigger   
   >> chance of automatic loss because people who sell and defraud , don't care   
   >> what happens cause you have little recourse.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >   
   > that's just the beginning of the rants   
   > Here is more in case you choose to use ebay or paypal and please listen   
   > carefully   
   > lots and lots of fees, before you know it, your goingto be taking a awful   
   > beating and sabotaging the reason to use ebay in the first place ( sell   
   > items with chance to get reasonable return)   
   > When buyer backs out, when auctions go bad, when you get a bad item, what   
   > auction to bid on, how to get answers, is often a myriad of links. How   
   > much   
   > time do you have? Part of it is because ebay and paypal don't want to be   
   > bothered , cause why should they , if your willing to spend hours doing it   
   > for them, or if you decide to give up , they win .When I   
   > complained to ebay or paypal they often do what lousy scammers do ; lie to   
   > you ( swear to God paypal representatives just lie to you to get you off   
   > their backs and each representative tells you something different, and I   
   > couldn't make this up even if I wanted to,)or   
   > redirect you to another link. I am sure there are policies in place but   
   > most   
   > of it is just winging it.  A large percent of auctions are for bad   
   > merchandise to some extent or another, and you never are or often won't   
   > get   
   > your   
   > money back unless you use paypal protection and even then paypal often   
   > just   
   > takes the money out of sellers or buyers account after many many days.   
   > Paypal really isn't guaranteeing anything and often  just an uncaring   
   > middleman like a bookie   
   >   
   > Finally don't ever and I repeat this with no uncertain emphasis, don't   
   > ever   
   > give paypal your checking account . They can and do automatically take out   
   > funds from your account. The overall policies affecting complaints in my   
   > view is based on loose interpretations of what happened. I don't believe   
   > its   
   > very objective but sometimes it can't be with the nature of the overall   
   > process being what it is. I mean anything could be said, from sellers who   
   > claim they didn't get their items back , to people who say its not the   
   > same   
   > item, to people say the seller did whatever and it could go on and on. At   
   > some point, there is no way to determine who is right or wrong and this is   
   > why more then anything else, the protection programs do not work. Its just   
   > as possible to get ripped off by Paypal siding with scammers as it is with   
   > them siding for what is right. It really does not matter sometimes to   
   > Paypal   
   > or ebay its all so subjective. I will repeat this you got to be able to   
   > spot   
   > the myriad of different frauds and tactics out there and paypal often   
   > doesn't do a thing to remove sellers who sold bad merchandise. NOTONCE not   
   > twice , not three times but often hundreds of times. And with these people   
   > your suppose to defend your self each time and take out hours of your   
   > life?   
   > NOOO be prepared to have your money taken out of your account with no or   
   > little recourse. I am repeat , in no way should you ever give paypal your   
   > credit information or bank account. I learned the hard way..   
   >   
   >   
   >> My complaints about ebay and paypal are these   
   >> there are many scam sellers who don't sell quality good based on their   
   >> descriptions   
   >> Unless your very knowledgably about examining every detail of item and   
   >> auction you can very easily be defrauded.   
   >> Ebay and Paypal does not make getting help or feedback easy. Paypal   
   >> protection for people who claim an item is a certain way is limited often   
   >> enough  to making said person who got bad item making them pay to prove   
   >> it.   
   >> without paypal protection I got defrauded more times then not. Buyer   
   >> beware   
   >> and its  happened more and more recently.. In my subjective view >> this   
   >> is a way for people to legally get away with fraud and pay pal has   
   >> actually lied to me , and   
   >> on   
   >> the phone which was not easy to find the number conveniently. What a   
   >> racket.   
   On another Note You know who does the best on Ebay?   
   >> You know who does the best? People who sell tickets to sports events who   
   >> could not do it legally in front of game or anywhere else. I am not   
   >> against them I am just   
   >> showing how ebay and paypal just let things happen that usually you   
   >> wouldn't have happen anywhere else in legal format and in the end you end   
   >> up losing .>>   
   > that's just the beginning of the rants   
   Here is more in case you choose to use ebay   
   lots and lots of fees   
   When buyer backs out, when auctions go bad, when you get a bad item, what   
   auction to bid on, how to get answers, is often a myriad of links. When I   
   complained to ebay or paypal they often do what lousy scammers do ; lie to   
   you ( swear to god paypal representatives just lie to you to get you off   
   their backs and each representative tells you something different,)or   
   redirect you to another link. A large percent of auctions are for bad   
   merchandise to some extent or another, and you never or often won't get your   
   money back unless you use paypal protection and even then paypal often just   
   takes the money out of sellers or buyers account after many many days.   
   Paypal really isn't guaranteeing anything and often  just an uncaring   
   middleman like a bookie   
      
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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