XPost: alt.planning.urban   
   From: one-if-by-land@concord.com   
      
   "Kris Krieger"  wrote in message   
   news:13rmlnh4ahq202a@corp.supernews.com...   
   > "Don"  wrote in   
   > news:fpfhlh0mmb@news5.newsguy.com:   
   >   
   >>   
   >> "Kris Krieger"  wrote in message   
   >> news:13rmbs3o5qcqqe8@corp.supernews.com...   
   >>> "Don"  wrote in   
   >>> news:fpc01202d32@news2.newsguy.com:   
   >>>   
   >>>> "Warm Worm"> wrote   
   >>>>> Out here in Vancouver, BC, Canada, we pay $73 a month for a regular   
   >>>>> bus pass, and I would be surprised if I could get that kind of deal   
   >>>>> with a car.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I haven't kept real close track but I believe my truck is less than   
   >>>> that. $300/yr for insurance and maybe $20-30/mth for gas.   
   >>>> Its sitting about 15' from me right now, I don't have to wait around   
   >>>> for it, I can get in it right now and go anywhere in the US, I can   
   >>>> listen to the toonz if I want-or not, and I don't have to share it   
   >>>> with other people that may be harboring contagions or may have a   
   >>>> loose screw upstairs, and I can carry lots of plywood on it, and a   
   >>>> whole buncha bags of groceries.   
   >>>   
   >>> I lived in Vancouver, BC for a little over 5 years - unless it;s   
   >>> changed a lot, (1) tansit was seldom on  time, (2) transit routes   
   >>> often tripeld the time it'd take to get to get somewhere by car, (3)   
   >>> they could save more energy by using things in the houses like   
   >>> *insualtion* and *thermopane*. ALso, traffic is murderous in part   
   >>> because there is just not all that much buildable land - there is a   
   >>> sort fo delta area, silt and so on deposited over the millenia by   
   >>> runoff from the mountains and deposits by the rivers, but the actual   
   >>> area is pretty small, so the streets are tiny.  Driving there is a   
   >>> lot like trying to drive through Boston.  Three are a coule of   
   >>> boulevards, btu most of the roads simply were not designed for   
   >>> commuting (or goign to the doctor's office or pertty much any other   
   >>> form of personal transportation.  When I lived in Richomond, BC, I   
   >>> tried to find public transport to my physician, and it was just plain   
   >>> flat-out ridiculous to try   
   >>> to get into Vancouver, or to Granville Island, ro anywhere.   
   >>>   
   >>> As for the oft-repeated mantra of "just move closer tothe city" -   
   >>> yeah, right, as if we had the money  =>:-/   
   >>   
   >> I think I'd rather die.   
   >> If I had to move to the city I would, but I wouldn't like it.   
   >> I gotta breath, man.   
   >> I gotta see the real thing.   
   >   
   > Well, for the sake of practicality, I've almost always lived sort-of near   
   > to cities, IOW in suburbia.   
   >   
   > But I'm an introvert, and a bit on the wacky side, and somewhat   
   > atavistic, so that I can't tolerate a lot of racket, I can't tolerate   
   > people invading my territory (walking on my yard), I hate being touched   
   > (never mind pawed!) by strangers (heck, even by most people I know and   
   > even like...), and so on.  I've never been able to tolerate any office   
   > situation for more than 4 years max., because I'm "socially challenged"   
   > and simply cannot deal with the sort of childish and nasty gossipfesting   
   > and backstabbing that constitute "office politics" - to me, it's mroe   
   > liek office psychosis, but since I am in the tiny mionority of poeple who   
   > tend to be honest and forthright, I'm the one who gets called a psycho...   
   > All in all, I can only tolerate/deal with peole in small doese.   
      
   I can barely tolerate anyone.   
   You've got me beat, the longest I've spent in an office setting is 2.5   
   years, then I had to bust out.   
   I lived 40 years in suburbia and in hindsight don't know how I put up with   
   all the things you described as long as I did.   
   You should be in a rural setting man.   
   I don't mean 200 miles from everything, but in a place where human rights   
   are paramont and people are courteous and mind their own business, on a   
   little bit of acreage.   
   It makes a difference, a BIG difference.   
      
   > So, what pisses me off about all of this "all car owners are dogpoop"   
   > stuff is that it assumes that all people are, or should be, ONE way and   
   > ONE way only, and if you aren't, you basically don't "deserve" to have  a   
   > life.  It doens't matter how you live, what you might have accomplished,   
   > what service you might have done, what abiliteis or talents you might   
   > have - no, the ONLY thing that counts is that you are a freak for not   
   > wanting to live so close to your neighbors that you can hear them fart on   
   > the pot - I *have* lived like that, surrounded, had to put up with   
   > roaches, and otehr "delights" of low-rent living, and one of the reasons   
   > we went to college and worked like dogs was to get OUT of that.   
   >   
   > What soem of these peole want to force on everyoen sounds, to me, way too   
   > much like going back to that.   
   >   
   >>   
   >>> It's a popular sport, wroldwide, for a people to blame *ALL* the   
   >>> world'splanet's ills upon the US, while ignoring their own faults.   
   >>> No place, no nation, is perfect, but many like to pretend they are --   
   >>> just as with individual people, it's easier for a group of people to   
   >>> point the finger at someone else, than it is to take a look at their   
   >>> own shorcomings.   
   >>   
   >> Someone awhile back in this group was lamenting the *happy* factor in   
   >> Sweden.   
   >> I just got through reading an article (I don't have a link cause I   
   >> cover too much territory to collect links all the time) written by a   
   >> Swede talking about the stalinesque manner the state uses in dealing   
   >> with recycled matter, which in reality is all the waste that is   
   >> generated. The cost and supervision of this program surely outweighs,   
   >> manyfold any benefit derived from it.   
   >> I read plenty of articles about the waste of money associated with   
   >> recycling in the US.   
   >   
   > Well, to be honest, I think recycling is good, for a number of reasons.   
   > I do wish that this neighborhood had recycle pickup.  Most places I've   
   > lived offer it, but don't make it illegal to not use it.   
      
   Again, I believe when the gov't takes the reins it becomes unworkable.   
   Here's something I came up with.   
   The canning companies should *paint* their labels on the can rather than   
   wrapping a paper label around them.   
   Same with plastic milk jugs.   
   Or better yet, milk jugs should be glass or cardboard.   
   Get rid of the plastic grocery bags, go back to paper.   
   Much of this recycling stuff should be done at the corporate level.   
   I'm considering writing to some of these companies and tell them I won't buy   
   their products anymore until they change their proceedures.   
   Here, I burn everything thats burnable, the rest goes in the landfill.   
   I'd rather burn everything.   
      
   > One of the things that sticks in my craw is, for example, the time we   
   > weer looking for a house in the Toronto area, and there was this one   
   > enclave of townhouses, they were OK, btu the prices were *horrendous*,   
   > way beyond all expectation or reason.  So I asked the real estate agent   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)