From: one-if-by-land@concord.com   
      
   "Kris Krieger"  wrote in message   
   news:13u858fmfjdule4@corp.supernews.com...   
   > "EDS"  wrote in   
   > news:pK-dnXob4sPWMnzanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com:   
   >   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> "Kris Krieger"  wrote in message   
   >> news:13u36p3j8i6e623@corp.supernews.com...   
   >   
   > [edited for bandwidth]   
   >   
   >>>   
   >>> I do not beleive in utopia, but I also don't beleive in dystopia -   
   >>> there *is* a large middle ground, and I think it's to the benefit of   
   >>> humans to actively seek out that middle ground, seek ideas that will   
   >>> be as beneficial as possible.  And I'm not absolutley convinced that   
   >>> isolated households are *universally* the best idea.  Of course it   
   >>> works for a lot fo people, myself being one of them, but it doesn't   
   >>> work for everyone and it also doesn't strike me as being the most   
   >>> energy-conserving option. More and more, people are thinking about   
   >>> arcologies and alternatives both to isolated suburban households, and   
   >>> to haphazard or dehumanizing forms of urban ugliness.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course, questions remain reagarding what to do with   
   >>> things-as-they- are, and how to find practical solutions for   
   >>> practical and current problems.  But the "central greenhouse" idea is   
   >>> also a bit of interesting futuristic speculation ;)   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Kris,   
   >> The block we lived on in Boston was a street, built in 1859,  divided   
   >> with a 10' park in the middle. Each drivable side was 16' wide and   
   >> sidewalks were 6', with brick 4 story rowhouses set back another 12'   
   >> and a flight of stairs to the main doors, but a secondary stair to the   
   >> lower level under the stoop. This made for a 600' X 80' foot visual   
   >> stadium with bleachers (the stoops) all around. The cars parked in the   
   >> street, forcing traffic to move slowly through the block. The central   
   >> area had a grand cast iron fountain, and 12 full grown trees   
   >> surrounded by a wrought iron fence, with several gates.   
   >   
   > I've seen a few similar older neighborhoods during my "adventures in   
   > moving".  One of the nicest was an old neighborhood in the town of   
   > Monrovia, CA - one of my personal all-time favorite places I've lived.   
   > It only started to go downhill when Yuppies came in and started   
   > "snootifying" it, which is about when we moved.   
   >   
   > ((Tangentially, what I call "snootifying" is when you get people coming   
   > in who aren't interested in being in and/or part of the neighborhhod and   
   > trying to make the neighborhhod better, but ratehr, move in becasu ethey   
   > see nothing more than an "investment opportunity", and do things which   
   > turn the houses "inward" so to speak, and end up ruining whatever it is   
   > that make s a neighborhood a neighborhood, as opposed to a collection of   
   > overpriced houses.  THere is probably a more correct term for the   
   > process, but I don't know what it is...))   
   >   
   > ANyway, it often has seemed to me that the bigger (or at least mroe   
   > expensive) the houses are in an area, th eless likely you are to ever see   
   > people *outside*.  As misanthropic, interoverted, and ns around peopel as   
   > I am, I neverthelsee find it disturbing and depressing to be in an area   
   > where the only people you ever seem to see outside are "hired help" (usu.   
   > the people mowing the lawn).   
   >   
   > It's bizarre to me, the extent to which people have "gone inside and shut   
   > the doors".  And, considering that I tend to be very bnervous around   
   > poeple and am an introvert and often somewhat misanthropic, for me to say   
   > it's bizarre, it has to be *exceedingly* bizarre.   
   >   
   > I don't know whetehr it's just car-centrism, or computer-ficus, or what;   
   > it just has seemed so weird to be in areas where you never say anyone   
   > outside, even when the weather was great - no adults, no kids, nobody.   
   > Gives me the creeps, to be honest.   
   >   
   >> We planted   
   >> flowers, had rib cook-outs, watermelon eating contests, Halloween   
   >> parties in the street around the fountain. The rowhouses were built   
   >> with 12" masonry separating walls, so acoustical privacy was very   
   >> good.   
   >   
   > That's one of the things that has been lost - soudn insulation.  The   
   > better it is, the better people can tolerate high-density living, for   
   > obvious reasons.   
   >   
   > One of the big problem with shoddy cluster-housing is that it does in   
   > fact ddrive epole into detatched housing (as detatched as they can   
   > afford), because that cuts down on the noise from the neighbors.  But   
   > doesn't necessarily eliminate it, if the detatched housing is shoddy.   
   >   
   > IMO, what makes people crazy isn't so much high-denisity living, but the   
   > noise, lacking a refuge.   
   >   
   > THe problem is that North American builders/developers don't give a shit   
   > about that because they only want to wring out as much profit as they   
   > can.   
   >   
   >   
   >> That block and a similar one next street over did many things   
   >> together, with a total of about 150 units we were a village within the   
   >> City. There were alleys between the main streets, but only for trash   
   >> access.  We could remain private and separated when we wanted, yet had   
   >> easy casual access to all our neighbors.   
   >   
   > Yup, the secret of tolerable high density living is the existence of   
   > choice.  I include noise reduction in taht, because in a sense, if you   
   > are constanyl subjected to noise, it's a form of forced interaction.   
   >   
   >   
   >> On those two blocks my girls   
   >> grew up with about 100 other kids of the same age range, but of all   
   >> ethnic and financial backgrounds, and with whom they remained   
   >> friendly. WE could walk or bicycle to Back Bay in a few minutes, I was   
   >> at work in 10 minutes. Although We now live in a close-in suburb, and   
   >> have good public access and ferry service to the City, it is not as   
   >> close and pleasant. Why did we move? The Yuppies moved in and wanted   
   >> everyone to be like them, boring, and that spoiled the fun.   
   >> I've always felt that was an ideal urban area.   
   >> EDS   
   >   
   > Oh, don't get me started on Yuppification.  It's odd, because   
   > *technically*, I was a "yuppie" in a sense, but I had/have very different   
   > attitudes about most things.  One of which is that I have a disliek of   
   > monoculture.  In agriculture, monocultures are always susceptable to   
   > disease aqnd tend to be very high-maintenance, i.e. require a lot of   
   > active work/input (of chemicals and so on) to maintain them, and any   
   > "stray" plant is seen as a weed, i.e. as a threat to the entire field,   
   > precisely becasue monocultures are less robust.  From what I've seen,   
   > sociological monoculture isn't all that different.   
      
   Snootification. Can I use that?  LOL   
   The cake lady down the road is inflicted with that, having spent a large   
   portion of her earlier life in urbania or suburbania but I undertstand she's   
   calmed down quite a bit over the years and mainly keeps community   
   *improvement* ideas to herself and lets other people be.   
   I think snootification is ingrained through childhood in the schools where   
      
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)