From: one-if-by-land@concord.com   
      
   "Kris Krieger"  wrote in message   
   news:cqWdnTCS_fg5DJDVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@earthlink.com...   
   > "Ken S. Tucker"  wrote in   
   > news:a5eaf55b-6d90-43e6-8efe-8262fd5ae941@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com:   
   >   
   >> On Apr 21, 7:56 am, Kris Krieger  wrote:   
   >>> "Ken S. Tucker"  wrote in   
   >>> news:a1c3c243-d06a-46ce-   
   >>> 95fd-4f262adb1...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com:   
   >>>   
   >>> > On Apr 18, 6:14 pm, gruhn  wrote:   
   >>> >> > I could flash into Freudian Sexual Psychology.   
   >>>   
   >>> >> You could, and that would put you how many psychological reforms   
   >>> >> out of date?   
   >>>   
   >>> > Manhattan went vertical for a reason, economics,   
   >>> > little island bla-bla-bla.   
   >>>   
   >>> Dubai is trying to cultivate tourism and establish itself as a good   
   >>> place for global corporations to have major or home offices.  A lot   
   >>> of places are trying to find non-heavy-industrial, non-oil ways to   
   >>> bring in revenue.  As for "indigenous industry", what makes an   
   >>> industry "indigenous"?  How far back in history must one go?  If   
   >>> Honda or SUbaru builds an assembly plant in Canada,is that   
   >>> "indigenous" or is it "non- indigenous"?  The phrase has no real   
   >>> meaning in the comtemporary world - a local bicycle company might   
   >>> make all it's parts, but import materials from many different places   
   >>> - is it then an "indigenous", industry or not? Often, insudtries   
   >>> became established in one or another area becasue of a power-repalted   
   >>> resource (river), but raw materials would come in from all over.   
   >>>   
   >>> What is the "indegenous industry" of Key West?   
   >>>   
   >>> > Dubai is an oil republic with no indigenous industry   
   >>> > aside from collecting dividends, same as the   
   >>> > Beverly Hill Billy's...no brains, lots of cash.   
   >>>   
   >>> And that is different from hundreds or thousands of other   
   >>> mono-resoruce places in what way?  Didn't Vancouver, BC start off as   
   >>> a log exporting town, and/or sawmill town?  How is that mono-resource   
   >>> differnt form any other, aside from merely having been exploited for   
   >>> a bit longer?  A great many economic centers started off as centers   
   >>> of mono-resource exploitation, but trade also works to help places   
   >>> expand their economic base in many ways.  People decide to expand   
   >>> their economic base and try to imoprove their lives - that's human   
   >>> nature, when people are *able* to do that.  What is so *wrong* with   
   >>> people in Dubai wanting to do that same thing?  That's what I don't   
   >>> understand.   
   >>>   
   >>> > They decided to emulate the western skyscaper   
   >>> > without knowing why, and the inherent inefficiencies   
   >>> > of that design.   
   >>>   
   >>> "Without knowing why"?  That makes no sense, "without knowing why".   
   >>> It seems to me, from what I've read and heard, that they knew   
   >>> *precisely* why.  Just because they aren't "Western", and/or just   
   >>> because their people got stuck in an area that was poor in resources   
   >>> aside from oil, it doesn't mean they're stupid and it doesn't mean   
   >>> they've less right than anyone else to try to broaden their economic   
   >>> base, improve their lives, and re-envision their future.   
   >>>   
   >>> Who do you think does have the right to do those things...?   
   >>   
   >> You do Kris! I understand Texaco intends to give out   
   >> little miniature Dubia skyscapers with every fill-up when   
   >> the price hits $5/gallon.   
   >   
   > None of that red-herring nonsense addresses anything.   
   >   
   > Firstly, The price of any resource is usually intertwined with users   
   > (demand, and useage of supply) - and 20 yrs ago, scientists and other   
   > concerned peole were talking about the exact same things they are talking   
   > about today - alternative energy, wasteage of resources, pollution, and   
   > the governmental policies, and conmsumer habits, that reject change in   
   > favor of the same old bad habits.  People didn't want to change then, and   
   > htey don't want to change now.  The only thing that might get them   
   > interested in changing is high gas proces - and the subsequewnt increases   
   > in the prices of things that depend upon transportation by truck.   
   >   
   > Secondly, you keep saying that the people in Dubai are all idiots, when,   
   > in reality, *we're* the idiots, for refusing to begin instituting changes   
   > way back after the oil embargo - remember that one?  Sitting in long   
   > lines to get gas, idiots shooting each other because someone cut in line   
   > or "took too much" or whatever?  No, people *don't* remember, and don't   
   > learn from history.  They just piss and moan when it comes time to pay   
   > the piper.   
   >   
   > Some poeple want to blame the oil-rich nations for all the energy   
   > problems, and it's absurd.  Those nations did what people in all places   
   > and at all times in history have done, and will continue to do - it's not   
   > their fault that the West has been, and China is becoming, a collection   
   > of energy pigs.   
   >   
   > Calling them stupid and so on is as senseles - and as useless - as   
   > blaming farmers, or for that matter fast-food places, because one   
   > overeats and gets fat.   
   >   
   > As for Texaco et al, hey, voters allowed   
      
      
      
   I'm glad you said *voters* and not *people*.   
      
   Remember, if you vote you have no right to complain about the results.   
      
   How about that for a truthful rendition of an old canard invented and   
   perpetrated by the retarded?   
   (If you don't vote then you have no right to complain.)   
              ^^^^   
   Admit, thats retarded isn't it?   
      
      
      
      
      
   the governemnt to put the kabosh   
   > on all sorts of alternative energy projects, mileage standards, and other   
   > things which might have kept the price of gas down - supply and demand,   
   > remember?  So t's stupid for those same voters to turn around and bitch   
   > because they're now reaping the harvest from what they themselves   
   > planted.   
   >   
   >   
   > What it is, is that people in North America want to exploit resources,   
   > AND have complete and total control over that exploitation - and they   
   > tend to get very pissed off when the people who actually *live* where   
   > those resources exist *dare* to develop the TEMERITY to take over their   
   > own resources, and worse!, make money off of them.  That's what it boils   
   > down to.   
   >   
   > Am I happy about the energy situation?  Hell, no.  But I don't "blame"   
   > Dubai or Arabia or whatever, I blame both my own government and my fellow   
   > citizens for their shortsighted lazyassed greed which made things develop   
   > as they have.  I don't *like* being dependent upon them, any more than I   
   > *like* being indebted to China. But there is no practicality in blaming   
   > either the oil-nations, or China - the blame lies with voters and with   
   > the elected government.  Misplacing the blame not only doesn't solve   
   > anything, it exacerbates the problem by diverting people from looking at   
   > real solutions.   
   >   
   > So your blip about Texaco and mini-moldels of this or that building in   
   > Dubai is as pointless as saying   
   >   
   >> Then Kris, you can post and   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)