From: troppo19@notsohotmail.com   
      
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   >   
   >   Ohrid Journal; Pharoahs in Their Past? So the Yugoslavs Say   
      
   Or "we come from the stars". Might as well go better than "we came down   
   out of the trees" or "God made us out of mud" ...   
   >   
   >   
   > By CHUCK SUDETIC, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES   
   > Published: November 21, 1990   
   >   
   > Few Yugoslavs would argue that what this country, with its many   
   > contentious nationalities, needs is yet another group of people who   
   > consider themselves different from their neighbors. But that is just   
   > what is surfacing in the ethnically mixed republic of Macedonia, where   
   > a growing number of residents are claiming descent from ancient   
   > migrants from the land of the Pharaohs.   
      
   Large numbers of Roma in Macedonia. Largest group of Roma in Australia   
   also come from Macedonia.   
      
   > [snip]   
      
   > At least two of Yugoslavia's recognized ethnic groups, the gypsies and   
   > Albanians, claim elements of the would-be Egyptian community as their   
   > own and complain that the Egyptians' ascent threatens to cut into   
   > their numbers.   
   >   
   > Skeptical Yugoslavs, including the head of the World Gypsy Congress,   
   > Rajko Djuric, assert that the would-be Egyptians are in fact   
   > gentrified gypsies who are trying to distance themselves from the   
   > shunned, poverty-stricken gypsies.   
   >   
   > This would not be the first such attempt.   
      
   Fairly common in fact. Rajko would know this.   
      
   > The word gypsy is itself   
   > derived from an erroneous identification of the gypsies as Egyptians.   
   > Linguists and cultural anthropologists have generally traced gypsies   
   > and their language to northern India.   
      
   The cultural anthopologists and linguists are overlooking something:   
   Sanscrit, the religious language of India, is derived from Phoenician,   
   the trading language of the ancient middle east. There's no doubt that   
   Roma spent a long time in India - after all it was the place to be, when   
   most other places weren't. The Sanscrit basis of Romanes does not prove   
   an origin in India.   
   >   
   > "This Egyptian business is all an escape from reality," Mr. Djuric   
   > scoffed.   
      
   > Miodrag Hadzi-Ristic, a cultural anthropologist at Skopje University   
   > who is organizing a multi-disciplinary study of the problems, said, "I   
   > personally have no proof that they are Egyptians or that they aren't."   
   >   
   > Members of the the Egyptians' Association produce some intriguing   
   > evidence to support their claims.   
   >   
   > Unlike most Yugoslav gypsies, who eke out a living as itinerant   
   > musicians, fortune tellers and unskilled laborers, the would-be   
   > Egyptians are a prosperous and educated people who have lived a   
   > sedentary life in enclaves at the center of towns, Mr. Arifi said.   
   >   
   > Rade Bozovic, a professor of Arabic at Belgrade University, said:   
   > "They look different from the gypsies and the Albanians. The tone of   
   > their skin is different, and they don't intermarry with gypsies or   
   > Albanians or speak the gypsies' language."   
   >   
   > Like Egyptians, members of the association regard wheat as a symbol of   
   > fertility, Mr. Bozovic said, adding that many art objects with   
   > Egyptian motifs and about five statues of the ancient Egyptian goddess   
   > Isis have been discovered in Macedonia. Though the would-be Egyptians   
   > now practice Islam, they have for centuries annually celebrated the   
   > day of St. Athanasius, a Christian patriarch from Alexandria, Mr.   
   > Bozovic said.   
   >   
   > Elderly members of the Egyptians' Association still believe that the   
   > human shadow possesses magical powers and they use secret chants to   
   > cure diseases they say are caused by the shadow, Mr. Bozovic observed.   
   > "This is also an element in old Egyptian folklore," he said. An   
   > 'Egyptian Graveyard'   
   >   
   > The would-be Egyptians decorate their graves with pyramid-shaped   
   > gravestones, Mr. Hadzi-Ristic said, adding that Yugoslav Army   
   > topographical maps mark an old "Egyptian graveyard" high on a mountain   
   > above Ohrid.   
   >   
   > The association's leaders concede that they do not know with certainty   
   > when their ancesters arrived in Macedonia. But they insist that if   
   > legends about their migration from Egypt in neolithic times are   
   > unfounded, then their arrival most likely occurred during the years   
   > when Alexander the Great's Empire stretched from Macedonia to Egypt or   
   > sometime during the fourth or fifth centuries A.D. when Christian   
   > Egyptians traveled to the Greek mainland.   
      
   Yes there has to be a connection with Alexander. His family symbol has a   
   16-pointed star (adopted by Macedonia, disputed by Greece). Roma symbol -   
   16-spoked wheel.   
      
   > "Some of our legends say we came here as blacksmiths and for   
   > generations we have worked in that trade," said Zejnel Ramiz, a   
   > machinist who still works part time in his father's blacksmith shop.   
   > "Now we've become skilled tradesmen and engineers."   
   >   
   > Mr. Arifi's wife, Mucheren, said, "Like many Macedonians, we Egyptians   
   > have gone abroad in large numbers in search of better lives."   
   >   
   > "My uncle even lives in America," she said with a smile. "In a place   
   > called Paterson."   
   >   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)