XPost: alt.planning.urban   
   From: Amy_nospam@magnoliamultimedia.com   
      
   "george conklin"  wrote in message   
   news:ZYCdnT3bXozdolPVnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@earthlink.com...   
   >   
   > "Pat"  wrote in message   
   > news:62d52cb1-678c-4d41-bb92-fa8361b00558@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...   
   > On Sep 14, 7:53 pm, "george conklin"  wrote:   
   >> "Warm Worm"  wrote in message   
   >>   
   >> news:gajqfg$gvv$1@aioe.org...   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> > george conklin wrote:   
   >> >> "Warm Worm"  wrote in message   
   >> >>news:gah7r8$4h9$1@aioe.org...   
   >>   
   >> >> )   
   >> >>> At any rate, with regard to "fresh", (storage-ripened, GM,   
   >> >>> irradiated,   
   >> >>> etc.) veggies all year round, some are beginning to talk about _how_   
   >> >>> they get them from wherever out of season; as well as about growing   
   >> >>> locally... Perhaps commerce ships will use sails again. (kind of like   
   >> >>> Amish technology)   
   >>   
   >> >> It was technology, not "modern" medicine, which brought down the death   
   >> >> rates from their historic highs, the demographic transition. Moving   
   >> >> food   
   >> >> long distances was a good bit of the drop. Local? That equates with   
   >> >> famine.   
   >>   
   >> > I'm all for "technology", given the wise application of it, and I see a   
   >> > lot of questionable applications.   
   >>   
   >> > I'm also cautious about the context in which we view death-rates, such   
   >> > as,   
   >> > for some examples, over scales of time (in their postponement or   
   >> > inevitability); in historical records; quality-of-life; or the inherent   
   >> > effects of population-expansion on, say, the ecosystem.   
   >> > If I'm "not living", I might as well be dead.   
   >>   
   >> > Plumbing as a "technology", for another example, only goes so far if it   
   >> > ends up as raw, untreated sewage in our oceans. Likewise with   
   >> > mass-production plastic manufacturing in reference to the floating   
   >> > plastic   
   >> > garbage dump in the middle of the Pacific.   
   >>   
   >> > The concern with using technology to treat problems brought about by   
   >> > technology also comes to mind.   
   >>   
   >> > It's not so much technology, as the capacity to think wisely and desire   
   >> > to   
   >> > live truly happily.   
   >>   
   >> Clean water was one of the real benefits of industrialization.   
   >> Factories needed lots of water, and water works were needed. So, yes,   
   >> plumbing was part of the solution. Sorry you don't think so. And   
   >> transporting food long distances was essential too. Bad diets = early   
   >> death.   
   >   
   > Many of the first real factories needed water, but not necessarily   
   > potable water.  For the first factories, water was a form of energy.   
   >   
   > ---   
   >   
   >    So?  In building large-scale water works for industry, the whole water   
   > supply was cleaned up.  Malaria, for example, declined sharply when   
   > farmers drained swamps for the fertile soil under the water.  That was not   
   > an intended consequence either.   
      
   Nor was the increased vulnerability of hurricane-prone areas to storms due   
   to loss of wetlands...   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)