From: user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) wrote in   
   > news:y4KdnSjXE_5H3f30nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com:   
   > Will Dockery wrote:   
   >> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   > >>> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   > >>>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >   
   > >>> Apple Montage   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Sneaking around   
   > >>> with Cousin Jenny,   
   > >>> smoking menthol   
   > >>> beyond the sheds.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Late summer vacation 1973   
   > >>> in the backwoods of Tennessee.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> To the right   
   > >>> behind the barn   
   > >>> were apple trees.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> There were several   
   > >>> of those trees   
   > >>> and other trees   
   > >>> behind them   
   > >>> beyond a field   
   > >>> and behind them, other trees.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Later, I stood near   
   > >>> as a crowd   
   > >>> watched Pops and my Uncle   
   > >>> cooking apple butter;   
   > >>> stirring the brown gunk,   
   > >>> boiling in a huge black kettle.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> I saw my father   
   > >>> secretly pass   
   > >>> a wine bottle   
   > >>> to my Uncle Clarence.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> I went from   
   > >>> breathing cold mist   
   > >>> out back behind the barn,   
   > >>> to breathing   
   > >>> the hot misty steam.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> The air smelled of apple fumes   
   > >>> and strong booze.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> -Will Dockery   
   > >>>   
   > >>> And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my   
   > >>> de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Here ^^^   
   > >>>   
   > >>> This is still obvious ^^^   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Define "poetry montage."   
   > >>>   
   > >>> See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in   
   > >>> poetry.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Here ^^^   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":   
      
   I agree, but remember, I'm applying montage effects to poetry.   
      
   > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):   
   > >>>   
   > >>> "A montage (/m'nˈt'ː'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in   
   > >>> which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time,   
   > >>> and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large   
   > >>> amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by   
   > >>> juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or   
   > >>> intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition.   
   > >>> In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes   
   > >>> editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside   
   > >>> the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create   
   > >>> symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by   
   > >>> British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest   
   > >>> the passage of time.[3]   
   > >>>   
   > >>> "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined   
   > >>> numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves,   
   > >>> split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."   
      
   I used montage effects in my poem.   
      
   I wrote a poem.   
      
   I didn't make a film.   
      
   > >>> The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of   
   > >>> lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees   
      
   Good find.   
      
   > >>> My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is   
   > >>> apparently ongoing.   
      
   I used montage effects in the poem, whether you agree or not.   
      
   > >>> This argument was settled long ago.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson   
   > >>> Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.   
      
   I think it was a "Mad About You" rerun it was interesting, with some fairly   
   significant mentions of the montage effect.   
      
   > >>> Like it or not, my poem does use montage.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> The entire poem is montage, it uses montage effects.   
      
   The poem is based on montage effects.   
      
   They're there, you just choose to deny their existence.   
      
   > >>> I've known about montage since the 1970s.   
   > >>> My poem "Apple Montage" used montage effects in poetry.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.   
   > >>> My poem is an example of the use of montage effects in poetry.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.   
      
   Thus ^^^   
      
   > >>> the trees described are *apple* trees.   
      
   The setting and actions of the characters make that obvious to the reader, if   
   they're actually paying attention.   
      
   > >>> Is the title of your poem   
   > >>>   
   > >>> I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.   
   > >>>   
   > >>> It's a poem in montage form.   
      
   Here ^^^   
      
   > >>> I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage   
   > >>> form   
      
   As I've explained "Apple Montage" numerous times, you just don't accept my   
   explanation.   
      
   > >>> Your poem is *not* in a similar form.   
      
   I've used montage effects in my poetry in a different way.   
   That's not so difficult to understand.   
      
   > >> There's no set form for a montage in poetry.   
      
   Meaning that various montage effects can and have been used in poetry.   
      
   > > You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."   
      
   That's correct.   
      
   I feel that montage effects can be used in several ways in poetry.   
      
   My use is obviously one of those.   
      
   > > Now you've corrected yourself, to say that there's "no   
   > > set form for a montage in poetry."   
      
   As far as I know, but as I think about it I think poets such as Allen Ginsberg   
   and Jack Kerouac can be found to use montage techniques in poetry.   
      
   I would need to find specific examples of that if course.   
      
   > > This is true, since "montage" is primarily used in film.   
      
   I used montage in poetry form.   
      
   > > Montage is based on the juxtaposition of images, whereas poetry is   
   > > created with words; so the language of the cinematic medium is rarely   
   > > transposed to the latter.   
      
   In my poem it was.   
      
   My poem is written in the form of a montage.   
      
   > > But as I've pointed out to you, the only portion of your poem which   
   > > could be said to function like a montage   
      
   The entire poem is a montage.   
      
   > > It is the least significant part of the poem -- and a bizarre choice   
   > > to use for a part of the title.   
      
   I don't agree, of course.   
      
   > > And, again, there are no apples in it.   
      
   The entire poem revolves around the apples.   
      
   That's why it's an apple montage.   
      
   > > The trees behind trees   
   > > could be apple trees   
      
   Which they were, which was why my father and uncle were cooking the apple   
   butter.   
      
   > > You used the title because you thought it was "snappy."  You've said   
   > > so in the past.   
      
   I used the title because the poem uses montage effects, as I've explained   
   several times before.   
      
   > The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem   
      
   Except that it does apply to the poem, as I've explained several times before.   
      
   HTH and HAND.   
      
   --   
   Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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