From: cujo@petitmorte.net   
      
   mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) wrote in   
   news:G7ycneRm3Z2p-vz0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com:   
      
   >> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   >>   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >>> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Blues   
   >>>   
   >>> "I want to be considered a jazz poet, blowing a long blues in an   
   >>> afternoon jam session on Sunday. I take 242 choruses; my ideas vary   
   >>> and sometimes roll from chorus to chorus or from halfway through a   
   >>> chorus to halfway into the next." -Jack Kerouac   
   >>>   
   >>> This method produced some spectacular poetry.   
   >>>   
   >>> Some of the best of all time...   
   >>>   
   >>> Just becaue   
   >>> doesn't make magically make it true, Donkey.   
   >>>   
   >>> Just as your whining about it doesn't make anything true, either.   
   >>>   
   >>> As I stated earlier:   
   >>>   
   >>> More mental masturbation from Jack.   
   >>>   
   >>> He has no more understanding of Jazz than he has of Buddhism   
   >>> (Dharma), but nevertheless gets off on applying it to his   
   >>> poetry/lifestyle.   
   >>>   
   >>> I can see why he's your idol, as you're constantly doing the same   
   >>> thing.   
   >>>   
   >>> Jazz is based upon the concept that there are potentially infinite   
   >>> variations within the framework of a given song. A jazz musician   
   >>> explores those variations -- while *staying within the structure* of   
   >>> the musical piece.   
   >>>   
   >>> Like your own "unspeakable sh*t," Jack's poetry had no basic form   
   >>> for him to perform variations (riffs) on.   
   >>>   
   >>> In order to have 242 choruses, you need to first have a basic   
   >>> structure or form. You can't have a chorus, for example, without a   
   >>> verse.   
   >>>   
   >>> His description of pursuing ideas over multiple choruses, stopping   
   >>> them in mid-chorus, etc., sounds more akin to the   
   >>> thought-fragment/word association process of Fragmentism than to the   
   >>> variations of Jazz.   
   >>>   
   >>> He just liked the way that the label of "Jazz poet" sounded... much   
   >>> the same way that you like calling yourself a poet.   
   >>>   
   >>> Agreed.   
   >>>   
   >>> Jack Kerouac was an avid jazz fan so I think he knew what else was   
   >>> talking about.   
   >>>   
   >>> You're a Pat Boone fan, which has far less credibility.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've got plenty of jazz records in my collection   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Just because you have a few jazz records doesn't meN you understand   
   >> them like Jack Kerouac did.   
   >>   
   >>   
   > I didn't say that I had a "few" records, deceitful Donkey.  I said I   
   > had "plenty."  Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Sarah   
   > Vaughan, Julie London (complete), Chris Connor (complete), Nancy   
   > Wilson, Peggy Lee, Dinah Washington, Fats Waller (complete), Beverly   
   > Kenney (complete), June Christy, and many others.   
      
   Chris Connor? I am impressed.   
      
   > I also spent ten years researching music (jazz included) for my two   
   > volume music history book, "Music! Music! Music!"   
   >   
   > They're probably not the same jazz that Kerouac was listening to, but   
   > that's of little consequence: Jazz theory is still the same -- jazz is   
   > improvisation *within* the structural framework of a musical piece.   
      
   It's also about incorporating elements and instruments of other genres.   
      
   One day, Little Willie Douchebag might try using English, coherence and   
   complete thoughts. Don't get your hopes up or nothing.   
      
   > Kerouac's statement keeps the improvisation, but ignores that   
   > framework -- which (if he were discussing music) would render the   
   > resulting piece abstract.   
   >   
   > Kerouac was using a half-understood tenet of jazz theory and forcing   
   > it to correspond to his work.  Again, this is much the same as your   
   > taking half-understood definitions of poetry and forcing them to apply   
   > to your "unspeakable shit."   
      
   The "free form", "beat" and "bebop" elements likely appealed to someone   
   constantly on substances and mooching from everyone else. That's Jack.   
      
   It's pretty telling that the ones Dreckweasel mentions most are drug   
   abusers and drunks. (Just like George, The Town Drunk, what a   
   coincidence!)   
      
   No wonder Dreckery gravitates toward them. It justifies his wasted life.   
      
   --   
   "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to   
   you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're   
   functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -   
   Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)