From: cujo@petitmorte.net   
      
   mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) wrote in   
   news:-KOcnWSHUcqE_eT0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com:   
      
   >> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >>> nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >>> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   >>> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> Apple Montage   
   >>>   
   >>> Sneaking around   
   >>> with Cousin Jenny,   
   >>> smoking menthol   
   >>> beyond the sheds.   
   >>>   
   >>> Late summer vacation 1973   
   >>> in the backwoods of Tennessee.   
   >>>   
   >>> To the right   
   >>> behind the barn   
   >>> were apple trees.   
   >>>   
   >>> There were several   
   >>> of those trees   
   >>> and other trees   
   >>> behind them   
   >>> beyond a field   
   >>> and behind them, other trees.   
   >>>   
   >>> Later, I stood near   
   >>> as a crowd   
   >>> watched Pops and my Uncle   
   >>> cooking apple butter;   
   >>> stirring the brown gunk,   
   >>> boiling in a huge black kettle.   
   >>>   
   >>> I saw my father   
   >>> secretly pass   
   >>> a wine bottle   
   >>> to my Uncle Clarence.   
   >>>   
   >>> I went from   
   >>> breathing cold mist   
   >>> out back behind the barn,   
   >>> to breathing   
   >>> the hot misty steam.   
   >>>   
   >>> The air smelled of apple fumes   
   >>> and strong booze.   
   >>>   
   >>> -Will Dockery   
   >>>   
   >>> And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my   
   >>> de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.   
   >>>   
   >>> No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.   
   >>>   
   >>> The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..   
   >>>   
   >>> Here ^^^   
   >>>   
   >>> This is still obvious ^^^   
   >>>   
   >>> Define "poetry montage."   
   >>>   
   >>> See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage   
   >>> in poetry.   
   >>>   
   >>> Here ^^^   
   >>>   
   >>> Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":   
   >>>   
   >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)   
   >>>   
   >>> Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):   
   >>>   
   >>> "A montage (/m'nˈt'ː'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique   
   >>> in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense   
   >>> space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to   
   >>> communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a   
   >>> shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots,   
   >>> compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple   
   >>> storylines of a narrative.   
   >>>   
   >>> "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking   
   >>> tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply   
   >>> denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally   
   >>> introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was   
   >>> used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage   
   >>> sequence", used primarily by British and American studios,   
   >>> became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]   
   >>>   
   >>> "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined   
   >>> numerous short shots with special optical effects   
   >>> (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures),   
   >>> dance, and music."   
   >>>   
   >>> The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a   
   >>> series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind   
   >>> trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes   
   >>> depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.   
   >>>   
   >>> As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in   
   >>> poetry form.   
   >>>   
   >>> My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is   
   >>> apparently ongoing.   
   >>>   
   >>> This argument was settled long ago.   
   >>>   
   >>> Interesting that I was watching a television program about   
   >>> Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.   
   >>>   
   >>> Like it or not, my poem does use montage.   
   >>>   
   >>> You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your   
   >>> poem.   
   >>>   
   >>> The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've known about montage since the 1970s.   
   >>>   
   >>> I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.   
   >>>   
   >>> If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage   
   >>> effects in poetry.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects"   
   >>> are two very different things.   
   >>>   
   >>> Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.   
   >>>   
   >>> There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.   
   >>>   
   >>> The trees described are *apple* trees.   
   >>>   
   >>> you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple   
   >>> trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: In context that's obvious.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: No   
   >>>   
   >>> I think it is.   
   >>>   
   >>> "To the right   
   >>> behind the barn   
   >>> were apple trees.   
   >>>   
   >>> There were several   
   >>> of those trees   
   >>> and other trees   
   >>> behind them   
   >>> beyond a field   
   >>> and behind them, other trees."   
   >>>   
   >>> I grew up in a rural, farming community.  Behind any given   
   >>> apple orchard was a forest.  The local forests did not contain   
   >>> apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.   
   >>>   
   >>> And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it   
   >>> either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or   
   >>> plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).   
   >>>   
   >>> Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.   
   >>>   
   >>> Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or   
   >>> another explanation.   
   >>>   
   >>> At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks   
   >>> are gone now.   
   >>>   
   >>> The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it,   
   >>> followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple   
   >>> trees strikes me as... bizarre.   
   >>>   
   >>> Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about   
   >>> people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.   
   >>>   
   >>> Is the title of your poem   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."   
   >>>   
   >>> I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey.  Are   
   >>> you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree   
   >>> are two very different things?   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."   
   >>>   
   >>> That's correct.   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.   
   >>>   
   >>> "montage poem."   
   >>>   
   >>> My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: You keep stamping your foot   
   >>>   
   >>> Exactly the same could be said about you.   
   >>>   
   >>> Dockery: Look who's talking.   
   >>>   
   >>> MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've also explained what a "montage poem" is   
   >>>   
   >>> Again, I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.   
   >>>   
   >>> You keep saying that   
   >>>   
   >>> Because it is true.   
   >>>   
      
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