From: user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:   
   > Will Dockery wrote:   
   > > mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:> Will   
   Dockery wrote:   
   >>> mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:   
   > >> Will Dockery wrote:   
   >   
   > >> Apple Montage   
   > >>   
   > >> Sneaking around   
   > >> with Cousin Jenny,   
   > >> smoking menthol   
   > >> beyond the sheds.   
   > >>   
   > >> Late summer vacation 1973   
   > >> in the backwoods of Tennessee.   
   > >>   
   > >> To the right   
   > >> behind the barn   
   > >> were apple trees.   
   > >>   
   > >> There were several   
   > >> of those trees   
   > >> and other trees   
   > >> behind them   
   > >> beyond a field   
   > >> and behind them, other trees.   
   > >>   
   > >> Later, I stood near   
   > >> as a crowd   
   > >> watched Pops and my Uncle   
   > >> cooking apple butter;   
   > >> stirring the brown gunk,   
   > >> boiling in a huge black kettle.   
   > >>   
   > >> I saw my father   
   > >> secretly pass   
   > >> a wine bottle   
   > >> to my Uncle Clarence.   
   > >>   
   > >> I went from   
   > >> breathing cold mist   
   > >> out back behind the barn,   
   > >> to breathing   
   > >> the hot misty steam.   
   > >>   
   > >> The air smelled of apple fumes   
   > >> and strong booze.   
   > >>   
   > >> -Will Dockery   
   > >>   
   > >> And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my   
   > >> de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.   
   > >>   
   > >> No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.   
   > >>   
   > >> The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..   
   > >>   
   > >> Here ^^^   
   > >>   
   > >> This is still obvious ^^^   
   > >>   
   > >> Define "poetry montage."   
   > >>   
   > >> See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage   
   > >> in poetry.   
   > >>   
   > >> Here ^^^   
   > >>   
   > >> Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":   
   > >>   
   > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)   
   > >>   
   > >> Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):   
   > >>   
   > >> "A montage (/m'nˈt'ː'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique   
   > >> in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense   
   > >> space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to   
   > >> communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a   
   > >> shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots,   
   > >> compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple   
   > >> storylines of a narrative.   
   > >>   
   > >> "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking   
   > >> tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply   
   > >> denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally   
   > >> introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was   
   > >> used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage   
   > >> sequence", used primarily by British and American studios,   
   > >> became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]   
   > >>   
   > >> "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined   
   > >> numerous short shots with special optical effects   
   > >> (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures),   
   > >> dance, and music."   
   > >>   
   > >> The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a   
   > >> series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind   
   > >> trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes   
   > >> depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.   
   > >>   
   > >> As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in   
   > >> poetry form.   
   > >>   
   > >> My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is   
   > >> apparently ongoing.   
   > >>   
   > >> This argument was settled long ago.   
   > >>   
   > >> Interesting that I was watching a television program about   
   > >> Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.   
   > >>   
   > >> Like it or not, my poem does use montage.   
   > >>   
   > >> You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your   
   > >> poem.   
   > >>   
   > >> The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.   
   > >>   
   > >> I've known about montage since the 1970s.   
   > >>   
   > >> I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.   
   > >>   
   > >> If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage   
   > >> effects in poetry.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects"   
   > >> are two very different things.   
   > >>   
   > >> Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.   
   > >>   
   > >> There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.   
   > >>   
   > >> The trees described are *apple* trees.   
   > >>   
   > >> you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple   
   > >> trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: In context that's obvious.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: No   
   > >>   
   > >> I think it is.   
   > >>   
   > >> "To the right   
   > >> behind the barn   
   > >> were apple trees.   
   > >>   
   > >> There were several   
   > >> of those trees   
   > >> and other trees   
   > >> behind them   
   > >> beyond a field   
   > >> and behind them, other trees."   
   > >>   
   > >> I grew up in a rural, farming community.  Behind any given   
   > >> apple orchard was a forest.  The local forests did not contain   
   > >> apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.   
   > >>   
   > >> And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it   
   > >> either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or   
   > >> plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).   
   > >>   
   > >> Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.   
   > >>   
   > >> Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or   
   > >> another explanation.   
   > >>   
   > >> At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks   
   > >> are gone now.   
   > >>   
   > >> The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it,   
   > >> followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple   
   > >> trees strikes me as... bizarre.   
   > >>   
   > >> Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about   
   > >> people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.   
   > >>   
   > >> Is the title of your poem   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."   
   > >>   
   > >> I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey.  Are   
   > >> you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree   
   > >> are two very different things?   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."   
   > >>   
   > >> That's correct.   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.   
   > >>   
   > >> "montage poem."   
   > >>   
   > >> My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: You keep stamping your foot   
   > >>   
   > >> Exactly the same could be said about you.   
   > >>   
   > >> Dockery: Look who's talking.   
   > >>   
   > >> MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.   
   > >>   
   > >> I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.   
   > >>   
   > >> I've also explained what a "montage poem" is   
   > >>   
   > >> Again, I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.   
   > >>   
   > >> You keep saying that   
   > >>   
   > >> Because it is true.   
   > >>   
   > >> Here's a good example:   
   > >>   
   > >> https://youtu.be/UrKvlB8F2qY?si=oZpMgQc7eI8lIHUd   
   > >>   
   > >> It's the combination of images that make the montage.   
   > >>   
      
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