c1d89c65   
   From: bumens@dingens.org   
      
   Daniel Ruth-Exposed  wrote:   
   > On Dec 7, 11:31 am, Volker Birk  wrote:   
   >> Daniel Ruth-Exposed  wrote:   
   >> > Hitler put the symbol on its corner to highlight the S-shapes   
   >> > for his socialism. He also always oriented it in the S-direction,   
   >> > again for his socialism. Your comments are consistent with those   
   >> > points.   
   >> Actually, I doubt that. And there are good reasons not to believe. I   
   >> don't know a single symbol Hitler designed for "socialism". As I stated,   
   >> the S rune isn't one.   
   > You know he referred to his group as national socialists and you know   
   > the symbol he used for his national socialists was a Hakenkreuz turned   
   > on its corner and pointed in the S-direction. You can cry about it all   
   > you want but you do know a symbol Hitler designed for socialism. And   
   > for similar alphabetic symbolism cry about the NSV symbol and the SA,   
   > and add that to your SS and VW.   
      
   I don't know what you're meaning with "cry". The NSDAP was no socialist   
   party at all. As a matter of fact, the German socialists and the   
   communists were the only two parties who refused to elect Hitler in the   
   Reichstag by declining the Ermächtigungsgesetz of March 24th 1933. All   
   other parties were approving it.   
      
   The German Nationalsozialismus was somewhat interconnected to socialist   
   ideas first, with the exception, that socialism is an international   
   idea, while Nationalsozalismus implies hate on everybody else and a   
   twisted ideology of racism. This ideology follows the Führerprinzip   
   (literally "principle of leadership"), which differs it from any other   
   form of socialism. But the Nazis dropped all socialist ideas quickly   
   with the Röhm-Putsch in the middle of 1934. Then they killed Ernst Röhm,   
   who was Stabschef of the SA, and many other leading officers of the SA.   
   Since then the SS took over, and found its place as the successor of the   
   SA. The henchmen and hooligans of the SA were more and more replaced by   
   the killers and murderers of the SS. By doing so the Nationalsozialismus   
   was felling his relationship to any idea, which was comparable to   
   socialism.   
      
   >> > "Hakenkreuz" is a common German word used for translation of   
   >> > "swastica". However, you as a German native speaker would not dispute   
   >> > that it clearly (even to an English speaker) literally means "hooked   
   >> > cross."   
   >> To be correct: it doesn't mean "hooked cross", literally we have to   
   >> translate that to "hook cross", which comes close to "cross of hooks".   
   > You have conceded this point. You are not helping yourself. stop   
   > making yourself look silly. Whatever point you are trying to make is   
   > pointless. You are grasping at straws.   
      
   I don't understand why you're so impolite. I'm just trying to go into   
   what you're writing. I have the feeling, that you're not too deep into   
   German history, so this leads you to some misunderstandings. I think I   
   can help you to find a better view.   
      
   > Thank you for conceding my points. Swastikas aren't commonly used in   
   > Christian religion, that is my point. Crosses are used. And the word   
   > swastika was substituted deliberately by people who want to distance   
   > the hakenkreuz from the cross. You apparently are another ignorant   
   > victim of what happened. wise up.   
      
   And again you're becoming impolite. Why are you doing so?   
      
   > Oh and don't ever recommend Wikipedia. It is an anonymous bulletin   
   > board.   
      
   Wikipedia is a good entry point to find information. The articles I was   
   recommending are clearly explaining their sources, and these sources are   
   dependable. Just have a look onto the bottom, please.   
      
   Really, I have the feeling, that you have a deep misunderstanding of   
   German history. That's the reason why I was recommending to read the   
   corresponding articles. if you feel underestimated, I can recommend   
   professional historical literature, too.   
      
   >> > The SS runes are not a misunderstanding. No one said they stand for   
   >> > "socialism" (other than that it was part of the government under   
   >> > German national socialism). They're meaning "Schutzstaffel" clearly   
   >> > shows the same type of stylized use of the rune style lettering for a   
   >> > word that has S-letters in them.   
   >> That's the next misunderstanding.   
   > Your blabbering about different S letters in German is crude evasion.   
      
   No, it isn't. And you impoliteness disturbes me. Your mistake is very   
   common. Many people are not familiar with the long S (it was even in   
   English lanugage, too, but this is some 200 years ago. In Germany it was   
   used up to the 20th century. That is what I was trying to say.   
      
   > You have not disputed the point made. If you want to claim that the SS   
   > symbol is not stylized in a rune style, then just come right out an   
   > state that so that everyone can see you are absurd.   
      
   Why should I? The SS logo is two runes, as I stated. I'm just trying to   
   explain, that this is a logo, a symbol, and that no-one in Germany was   
   using runes in a German text with the exception to print the logo of the   
   SS when it was mentioned. Typewriters like the one I was offering a   
   photo to you were not common outside the SS itself.   
      
   > And while you are at it say whatever stupid things you would like to   
   > say about the stylized lettering in the SA and the NSV symbols et   
   > cetera.   
      
   The Sturmabteilung was not using runes at all. The thing in its logo is   
   a flash, because of the name – Sturmabteilung literally translates to   
   "department of (thunder)storm" as well as "department of attack" (in   
   German this is ambiguous, and I think this was intended). With NSV, do   
   you mean the Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt? The symbols in this   
   logo are just latin letters, no runes.   
      
   > Geez you said "Runes never were used in German texts AFAIK,   
   > beside the SS rune pair as logo for the Schutzstaffel." So you concede   
   > it for the SS but you want to maintain that the same stylie never ever   
   > entered the mind of anyone else regarding any of their other many   
   > symbols.   
      
   No, I don't. I just want to mention, that you will not find historical   
   or recent German texts with runes at all.   
      
   > They never thought of the SS symbol again. That was it. No   
   > one ever even thought that the hakenkreuz kinda sorta looked a teensy   
   > bit like the SS symbol or a rune style crossed. That never crossed   
   > anyones mind.   
      
   Maybe – and why should anyone do so? The two symbols have very different   
   roots, and aren't interrelated whatsover (with the exception that both   
   were used by Nazis).   
      
   > Guess what? it never crossed YOUR mind. But now it has. sorry to   
   > disabuse you. It definitely crossed other minds.  You are absurd. Stop   
   > being idiotic.   
      
   You're just impolite again. I'm beginning to think about why. Did I   
   demolish your illusions about us Germans and our history? You seem   
   having problems to deal with the facts I'm offering to you.   
      
   >> And that's a misunderstanding again. The Hakenkreuz for sure has nothing   
   >> to do with the SS runes. It is historically wrong to bring it together   
   >> with socialism in any way. The swastica is just a symbol for fortune,   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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