43649948   
   From: buffhunter@my-deja.com   
      
   In article , jrs9@columbia.edu says...   
   > .   
   > >   
   > > > What I wonder is how the older race of cylons will fit into this   
   > > > history.  Will we find out that Cavil is behind the STO?   
   > >   
   > > ---   
   > > You mean the ones the Final Five belong to? They are still making   
   > > their way to the 12 Colonies from the original Earth in their   
   > > sublight space ship. Cavil isn't "born" yet. Cavil won't be born   
   > > until AFTER the original Cylon-Colonial war so he doesn't fit into   
   > > what we seeing on "Caprica" now at all.   
   > >   
   > > > Or that the Caprican cycle is replicating previous history; the revolt   
   is home-   
   > > > grown as is the revolt, the metal cylons leave the colonies, go   
   > > > elsewhere, start experimenting on their own on humanizing their   
   > > > appearances [Razor] and then meet up with the older cylon race who   
   > > > introduce them to their heritage..   
   > >   
   > > ---   
   > > Not quite. Here is the history, not only for you but for those who   
   > > don't know:   
   > >   
   > > The Cylons of the 12 Colonies of Kobol, in which the copy of Zoe   
   > > Greystone is the very first, revolted against the humans of the 12   
   > > Colonies. Then as that war was raging the Final Five Cylons from the   
   > > original Earth-Samuel Anders, Tory Foster, Ellen Tigh, Saul Tigh, and   
   > > Galen Tyrol-came and as a deal to the Colonial Cylons to stop their   
   > > war on humanity they agreed to help them make them biological beings   
   > > like they were which the Colonial Cylons were trying to do (that is   
   > > what we saw in "Razor") but failing. The result were seven Cylons of   
   > > Battlestar Galactica we met-the John Cavils (1), Leoben Conoys (2),   
   > > D'Anna Biers (3), Simon O'Neills (4), Aaron Dorals (5), The Sixes   
   > > (6), and Sharon Valeriis (8)-from the cooperation between the   
   > > Colonial Cylons and the Final Five.   
   > >   
   > > Then one of the Seven new humanoid living Cylons, Cavil, destroyed an   
   > > eighth model (NOT the No.8 model, the Sharons but the one of the   
   > > original 8 different types of humanoid flesh and blood models) that   
   > > we never met the Daniels (7), out of jealousy and then turned against   
   > > his own "parents" the original Final Five, killing them and then   
   > > blocking their memories of what they really were when they   
   > > resurrected making them think they were human, and manipulated them   
   > > and put them into the human's worlds. He also turned his fellow flesh   
   > > and blood Cylons-his sisters and brothers effectively-against   
   > > humanity (and keeping from them who the Final Five were) and got them   
   > > to launch the second attack on the colonies we see 58 years after   
   > > what we are seeing in "Caprica" now. They also built new mechanical   
   > > Cylons which we also saw in BSG preventing them from being self   
   > > aware, essentially enslaving them as the original "Zoe" Cylons were.   
   > > However, the original Zoe Cylons, for lack of a better term still   
   > > existed and we saw them in the Cylon home world around that black   
   > > hole in the last few episodes of BSG.   
   > >   
   > > It will be interesting to see if the original Zoe Cylon will survive   
   > > the first Cylon Colonial war.     
   > > -   
   > > ----->Hunter   
   >    
   > A lot of good stuff here, but I, for one, would be annoyed if the   
   > drive of the whole narrative of this series was solely one beings(s)   
   > pique.   
   ---   
   In this case that would be Zoe (and for clarity sake I refer to the    
   entity in the U7 robot and not the real dead girl unless otherwise    
   stated) and not Cavil since he hasn't been born yet. However, it will    
   be intriguing to me that all this trouble started because a father    
   wanted to have his daughter back.    
   >   
   > Putting it all on Cavil's shoulders seems too easy.  Some   
   > questions: in Tyrol's vision of his former life on the "real" Earth,   
   > we briefly saw a city of apparently unlimited types of cylon beings.   
   > That particular cylon race somehow had found a way to reproduce in a   
   > way to maximize its genetic(?) varieties.   
   ----   
   Yes, they were able to reproduce naturally, through sex and with the    
   presumed execution of normal twins and the occasional coincidence    
   (you know when you look a lot like someone you are not related to,    
   like a famous actor) they aren't replicas of each other. They were    
   essentially normal human beings like we are in real life.    
   >    
   > IIRC, didn't Ellen have a   
   > satellite in orbit or something else manufactured at the last moment   
   > before that war that allowed what we now call the Final Five to   
   > survive and reincarnate?   
   ---   
   Yes, they were the ones to rediscover resurrection after their race    
   lost the ability thousands of years before when their people came to    
   the original Earth and were able to have children in the natural way.    
   The original Tyrol, the original Ellen, the original Tory etc. were    
   all born. Then when original Earth's mechanical Cylons which were    
   created just like the Cylons we are seeing now rebelled and destroyed    
   humanity and themselves and killed the Ellen, Tory, Tigh, Sam and    
   Tyrol as we saw in nuclear blast they resurrected on the ship they    
   had in orbit and became what we call the Final Five Cylons. From the    
   smoking cinder of original Earth they headed for the 12 human    
   colonies that we know Caprica, Gemanon etc to warn those humans to be    
   nice and caring to the machines they had or was about to create but    
   they were too late and the First Cylon War was already raging.     
   >    
   > Do we have a timeline reference that the new numbered human breed of   
   > cylons were created only after the Five reached the Caprican sector?   
   ---   
   Yes. The history was related in the BSG episode "No Exit" by Sam    
   Adners after he was shot in the back of his skull and it released the    
   suppressed memories. The Resurrected Ellen Tigh also filled us in    
   with some of Cavil motivations in flashbacks in the same episode. The    
   original Seven Cylons we knew in BSG-Leoben, Sharon, Six were created    
   AFTER the original Cylon Colonial war that we saw in "Razor"    
   INCLUDING Cavil.  As I said it was part of the deal the Final Five    
   made with the Colonial Cylons-the ones that Zoe is the first of-to    
   help them become flesh and blood like they where. I forgot to tell    
   you last time that they also would through in resurrection technology    
   as part of the deal. And that is how the original Cylon War will end.    
   The Numbered flesh and blood Cylons were the creations from that    
   deal, including Cavil so Cavil has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do    
   with the original Colonial Cylon's revolt.    
      
   > Cavil's hatred seems to indicate an emotion of long duration.  [Maybe   
   > it's his age! He's pissed off that the Five made him so much older   
   > compared to the others!]   
   ---   
   In part yes it is. He will of course be the direct cause of the    
   SECOND attack on the Colonies and part of the reasons where because    
   he was jealous of one of his brothers, Daniel the never seen No.7 but    
   it is also the fact that he despise, hate his human form and not just    
      
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