[continued from previous message]   
      
   > >everyone assumes the chip is the same when, from the characters'   
   > >perspective, there isn't any good reason to do so.   
   >   
   > I am completely confused about what you are saying.  A moment ago you seemed   
   > to be claiming that only one chip exists at all, now you are claiming again   
   > that there are graystone versions of the chip.  Which is it?   
      
   I'm talking from two different perspectives - we, the audience, know   
   there is a single chip, one Vergis developed, Graystone stole and   
   implanted (with Zoe) into a Cylon body.   
      
   From the perspective of the characters, however, Graystone Industries   
   has a chip and the Vergis Corporation had a chip. Not knowing for   
   certain that Daniel organised a theft of the Vergis chip, the   
   characters involved don't know whether one chip exists or two (one   
   developed by Vergis, one developed by Graystone) - and the evidence   
   linking Daniel to the theft is circumstantial. On that basis it's   
   entirely reasonable to conclude there are two separate chips.   
      
   > > This is another   
   > >case of clumsy writing that assumes that, since the audience knows   
   > >something (that the two chips are one and the same), it should be easy   
   > >enough for the characters to work out too.   
   >   
   > Whip two chip are you claiming 'are one in the same'?  A moment ago you   
   > claimed the chips were different...and a moment before that you claimed that   
   > only one chip even exists.   
      
   See above.   
      
   > >On the face of it, all that gives us is a coincidence of timing (and   
   > >the fact that in each case, only one example of either chip or working   
   > >robot existed, but you'd expect that to be par for the course for a   
   > >prototype). Everyone's convicting Daniel, and he's effectively going   
   > >along with it by being wholly unconvincing in his denials, on the   
   > >basis of what he's bound to know would never stand up in court as more   
   > >than circumstantial evidence. The fact that the audience knows Vergis   
   > >is right doesn't mean Vergis ought to know that.   
   >   
   > Not sure what you are saying here or why it has any relevance to whether or   
   > not avatar-Zoe could exist or whether or not avatar-Zoe should or should not   
   > be copyable.   
      
   It's not relevant - it was a separate issue I brought up during the   
   discussion as an element in the overall plotting of this arc I find   
   clumsy.   
      
     Who cares if Graystone stole the chip and everyone knows it?   
      
   Well, Graystone does for a start - he's been punished by losing his   
   team and three weeks from his deadline. That's quite a major incentive   
   for him to do as much as he can to remove suspicion.   
      
   > Why do you believe that Vergis's claim that the chip did not work means that   
   > it actually did not work rather than that he simply was unable to get it to   
   > work?   
      
   Because from the character's perspective, it didn't work. If Daniel   
   had shown him the Cylon and said "Hey, look, unlike you I have a   
   working MCP", Vergis would have no strong grounds for going after the   
   team or for informing the military or Amanda (and apparently the   
   Tauron press) about the incident.   
      
   > >>  His proving that one Cylon worked has already been done.   
   > >> Him showing them his own chip (which does not work in a Cylon) isn't   
   > >> going   
   > >> to dispell any rumors that he stole the thing that does work.   
   >   
   > >Rumours, undoubtedly not. But the characters are presenting it as hard   
   > >evidence, which it is anything but - Daniel didn't stand up to the   
   > >army commander's accusation at all.   
   >   
   > Why would he need to defend against the accusations that he stole the chip?   
   > The army comand seems to have made it clear that they do not care if the end   
   > product was developed with stolen technology.  They only care about getting   
   > an end product.   
      
   If they hadn't thought the chip was stolen, he'd have a deadline of a   
   month rather than a week to work on the problem, which in turn would   
   have meant he wouldn't have ordered the 'memory wipe' procedure (why   
   didn't it ever occur to him that if he wiped the 'problem' algorithms   
   the resulting chip would stop working?). Plus he wouldn't have Vergis'   
   vendetta against him. It's a rather central plot point at this stage,   
   so yes he did have every incentive to defend himself.   
      
   Phil   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)