From: russ@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this
To: alt.battlestar-galactica
Bryan wrote in
news:Q%S0f.7439$dl2.6614@fe08.lga:
> Russ wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>>>
>>>not trying to insult you Russ and no strawman here either.
>>>
>>>You said you were not shedding any tears over the treatment of P6 by
>>>victims of the Cylon genocide. that directly implies that you think
>>>her being raped is OK.
>>
>>
>> No, it doesn't. But I am reminded of the warning that those who live
>> by the sword will die by the sword.
>>
>
> So the torture is justified in your eyes, fine but how is the rape?
You keep accusing me of justifying things when I've done nothing of the
sort.
> Live by the sword die by the sword how does that justify rape were the
> colonials systematically raped before they were nuked?
Well, a couple of thousand surviving colonial women are being
systematically raped by the cylons - or did you forget that scene.
>>>You say that the acts were morally and
>>>militarily wrong but then you say you are not bothered by it so which
>>>is it?
>>>
>>>your words:
>>>
>>>...it's a captured enemy agent that is part and parcel of the cylons'
>>>genocidal plan. Regardless of its particular role, it is guilty as a
>>>co-conspirator...
>>>I'm accusing it of being an active co-conspirator in the cylons' plan
>>>to exterminate humanity. As such, I do not shed a tear over any
>>>treatment it receives at the hands of the victims of that genocide.
>>>
>>>
>>>ANY TREATMENT. your own words, therefore you are "not shedding a
>>>tear"
>>>
>>>over P6 being raped.
>>
>>
>> Technically, I am not shedding a tear over her torture. It's not at
>> all clear a cylon can even be raped. Rape, for the victim, involves
>> psycho- sexual issues that we don't know apply to cylons.
>>
>
> Really? so she's catatonic because???????????????????????
You have no idea that she really is catatonic. Nor do I know that she
isn't.
> Sharon pulled a blanket over her head and cried hysterically
> because??????????????
Because *it was programmed to act like biological female human*!!!
The cylon that Adama left at Ragnor Anchorage made a very convincing
show that it was being wrongly accused. It was still a cylon.
> What a ridiculous argument.
What's ridiculous is that you accept a cylon's outward appearance at
face value. They have shown again and again that they are deceitful and
experts at mind games. The human-appearing cylons have shown time and
time again that they can utterly fool and manipulate humans.
>> Old law school analogy. A person sneaks into a bedroom intending to
>> kill the occupant and sees the victim in bed sleeping away. The
>> person pumps several bullets into the sleeping figure and leaves.
>> Was that murder?
>>
>> What if the person had just had a heart attack and was already dead?
>> Now is it murder?
>>
>> Looking at the perpetrator, he intended to commit murder and thought
>> he committed murder and from his perspective did commit murder. In
>> every important sense, he is a murderer. But from the victims
>> standpoint (and that of the law), no murder was committed.
>>
>
> This is relevant how?
My point being is that the Pegasus crew is like the person who thought
he committed murder above. From their perspective they were committing
rape. For all intents and purposes they were committing rape. However,
on the other hand, P-Six can be analogized as the already dead murder
victim. It is not at all clear that a cylon can even be raped. It is
not clear that the psychosexual issues that make rape so heinous are
even applicable to cylons. Notwithstanding P6's outward appearance, the
'rape' and torture may have been no more painful than a dog humping your
leg.
>>>no strawman just quotes.
>>
>>
>> Let's use an analogy. Let's say a child is bullied and beaten up at
>> school every day by an older, bigger child. Now let's say one day
>> the smaller child sees the bully and hauls off and hits the bully and
>> knocks the bully around.
>>
>> Was the smaller child wrong? Technically, yes. But am I really
>> going to shed a tear that the bully was beaten up? No.
>>
>
> So the little kid rapes the bully after he beats him up that's OK too?
You're mixing and matching analogies. P6 was no mere bully. It was part
of the plan to annihilaite humanity and had killed 7 guards.
> You really don't see the point here do you?
I do. I see that you would be like Baltar and be completly taken in by
the cylons.
>> Or let's ratchet the analogy up a notch. How about a wife who shoots
>> a sexually and physically abusive husband? Was she wrong? Yes. Am I
>> going to shed a tear over the husband? No.
>
> not relevant to this situation.
Why? Because it undercuts your argument?
> but even if it was would she still be justified if she sodomized him
> also? or would she be slipping down to his level?
She might very well be slipping down to his level. But I would still
not feel sorry for him
Russ
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