From: bubblewrapped@cox.net   
      
   You know, it's really quite odd.  If you track down my identical message   
   under the topic "where did it all go" in alt.bbs.allsysops, I received a   
   MUCH different (and quite ignorant) response that over then span of 40+   
   messages is threatening to turn into a flame war.   
      
   What's the difference?  Are people required to have degrees to post in this   
   base? :)  (actually, I have some theories about certain message nets that   
   apparently have a certain type of user, but don't carry this exact base, but   
   that's all I'll say)...   
      
   "Phil Abel"  wrote in   
   message news:_e5Pa.18923$OZ2.3372@rwcrnsc54...   
   > I think your abandonware issue stretches much farther than just BBS   
   > software, of course, into the realm of all older PC software.  Legally,   
   > copyrights exist for a very long time, I read that they last lifetime of   
   > author + 70 years.  So given the relatively young age of the computer   
   > industry, I suppose you could make a blanket statement that every piece of   
   > microcomputer software that ever was has that copyright still in force,   
   > assuming no other action (reclass as freeware) has been taken.  Although   
   you   
   > can register a copyright with the govt, they basically exist automatically   
   > on anything you create.   
      
   I hadn't thought that far about it, but I realize now that I agree with you.   
   I tend to break all software up into a couple of different categories.   
   Take, for instance, the game category.  It's a game.  You know it's   
   mind-candy, they know it's mind candy, if you don't like the price-tag, too   
   bad.  That's my attitude.  There are a couple of companies (MAXIS!) that I   
   see as providing horrible product for outrageous prices, so I don't exactly   
   feel bad that there's probably some kid out there ripping them off, but if   
   that kid gets caught, I'm not going to feel bad for him either.  From there   
   it's a spectrum, and as software gets more into the realm of functional and   
   providing a service, the more I expect it to be for a reasonable price.   
   Apparently many others agree with me, evidenced by, for example, comparing   
   Adobe to Jasc.  $99 for PSP, which is half-quality compared to Photoshop?   
   Then, as software gets older and older, I have more and more expectation   
   that I should be allowed to get it cheaper, or free.  I also look at the   
   service/function provided.  A game or photo editing package is a far cry   
   from something scientific or artisitic that could be used in education,   
   which I'm sure was one of the main arguments that led to the "fair use"   
   provision you mentioned.   
      
   With old legacy dos software, door games, etc., that are needed to round out   
   the software package that we call a BBS, I see it as the only means to   
   create a unique community environment that we'll seriously regret losing if   
   it ever completely dies out.  We're talking about something that is   
   basically CB radio with a keyboard.  I get shot down most times I mention   
   it, but I think it's something about the interface.  I think that the   
   interface of the CB or Ham radio, or the BBS, brings something human back   
   into the picture versus the interface of the telephone, or the   
   point-and-click 32-bit WWW-like interface.  Another person who responded   
   mentioned Gates targetting the people who would buy a PC if they knew they   
   wouldn't have to take a class for it, and I agree with him completely.   
   These are the people who ask me a question and then get impatient when the   
   answer isn't immediate and obvious.  They don't want to learn anything about   
   their equipment beyond what they need to know in order to make it serve   
   them, and when this equipment is used to connect to a community, the   
   attitude carries over into the community.  The most ardent users of the best   
   and longest-lived BBSs wanted to know how the equipment worked, how the   
   software worked, how the community worked, and how to improve all of it.   
   We're talking pretty much about people who could be labled with an "H" word   
   that has become forbidden and taboo...   
      
   > If you are saving a creative work from "digital extinction" by preserving   
   it   
   > on your BBS, are you covered by this "fair use" provision of the copyright   
   > laws?  You seem to be a dedicated hobbyist who is trying to preserve the   
   > golden age of BBSing purely for the sake of nostaligia and have no   
   financial   
   > motive in doing so.  You also seem to be quite willing to pay the   
   > registration fees for said packages if you could only track down the   
   > copyright holders.  But would a computer illiterate courtroom agree?  I   
   > think if an author is still trying to sell a package, however futile the   
   > pursuit, that is their business and let them be.  But for those that have   
   > disappeared, maybe you have an argument that you are trying to preserve   
   the   
   > legacy of the work.  Also, even though the copyright lasts for decades,   
   due   
   > to bit rot et al, the copyrighted material itself may not!! --especially   
   if   
   > the source code is sitting on 3.5" floppies in a box in a hot garage   
   > somewhere-- how should that be treated?   
      
   I would say that it's more like "willing to pay for said packages if I could   
   only track down the copyright holders...if it's worth it".  By worth it, I   
   mean that I shouldn't have to go horribly out-of-pocket before I know that   
   I'm going to be able to spark a community.  Any number of conditions might   
   change that cause this to not work out as I'd like it to, and if I've gone   
   and spent $100 out-of-pocket to register the best 8 or so games , doors, and   
   utilities that BBS users will expect to be able to access, it's a bit   
   unreasonable.  If I wanted to make money in some way, that would be   
   different.  As long as Micro$pend is vaguely part of the topic, or Ma bell   
   before them (thinking of the DOJ and monopoly type laws), once a service or   
   company or product reaches a certain level and becomes pretty much a   
   necessity, certain controls have to be put on it. (this is a very simplistic   
   way of puting it, I know, but it gets the job done for this purpose).  What   
   of LORD, or TW2002, or BRE, FE, SRE, FH, TAL, LORE, and quite a few other   
   games that pretty much are synonymous with "BBS" now?  Some of these games   
   arguably were the life support of BBSing for a long time.  I should run a   
   crappy BBS absent of these titles because they are unsupported now, or grab   
   the two or three that are supported just to accentuate the lack of the rest   
   of them?  If it was to make money, again, different story, in fact it would   
   even be a different story if it was for sheer gratification.  These are the   
   things you happen to NEED on any BBS, they provide a certain kind of user   
   interaction that is symbiotic to the type of user interaction that is   
   provided in the message areas.  Imagine if Fidonet and Usenet and the like   
   that can be accessed via a BBS could only be so accessed after a myraid of   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)