[continued from previous message]   
      
   > There are a number of instances above, where you both modified (changed   
   > "one" to "as one"), and contradicted what Scripture says (the idea there   
   > are three eternally self-existent "Gods", who are united only in   
   > relationship, not divine essence). In that you clearly contradict what   
   > the Bible teaches. There is only a single, solitary being who is God.   
   >   
   >   
   >>> That is what Paul was saying when he said, "Be followers of me.”   
   >>   
   >> The rest of that verse says “even as I also of Christ” IOW Follow or   
   >> imitate Christ.   
   >   
   > [...]   
   >   
   >>> Paul was merely a vessel; all the glory is the Lord's.   
   >   
   > Correct.   
   >   
   >> I am aware of how God speaks and how he confirms His words.   
   >> Many a cult leader speaks exactly as you have spoken, with many dying   
   >> as a   
   >> direct result of that.   
   >   
   >   
   >> Paul would never mock God by making fun of the gift of   
   >> tongues.   
   >   
   >   
   > Paul would never mock God by faking tongues like Charismatics do.   
   >   
   >   
   >> Nor would he use any foul language. By His fruits we knew him and by   
   >> your fruits you likewise are known.   
   >   
   >   
   > Yet you have no problem opposing and trying to poison people's minds   
   > against accurate proclamations of the gospel in here, if someone other   
   > than you is making them. Filthy communication is a manifestation of our   
   > sin nature, but so is bitter envy that opposes those who promote the   
   > truth, out of demonically inspired envy (James 3:14-15; https://   
   > christrose.news/demonic-wisdom).   
   >   
   >   
   >>>>> The Lord Jesus Christ was always and is always perfect; only God is   
   >>>>> the   
   >>>>> source of perfection.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Yet the words Jesus spoke were the words of His Father, he stated   
   >>>> clearly   
   >>>> that these were not His own personal words. Yes, Jesus was sinless.   
   >>>> From   
   >>>> birth and throughout his life. At his death he became ’sin’ for us.   
   >>> If you mean He turned dirty then you have said a very bad thing. For   
   >>> one, He is always was, is, and will be forever what He has always been.   
   >>> Or to say it another way, a spotless lamb doesn't become spotted when it   
   >>> is being slaughtered for the sins of slaughters.   
   >   
   >   
   > "If".   
   >   
   >   
   >>>> Him   
   >>>> who knew no sin, in order to pay the price, the ransom price for all   
   >>>> who   
   >>>> will believe.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we   
   >>>> might be   
   >>>> made the righteousness of God in him.” (2Co 5:21, KJV)   
   >>>   
   >>> It means He was was "made" to be sin for us, not that he was made sin.   
   >>> If I say to the judge, I will take the death penalty for that man's   
   >>> murder, that does not make my personhood a murderer. Yes, I pay the   
   >>> price for the sin, but that does not make me a murderer!   
   >>   
   >> Actually the words “to be” was not part of that scripture, it was   
   >> infected for clarities sake. It really said "He was made sin for us."   
   >>>   
   >>> You said yourself, "Jesus was sinless." He was, is, and always will be.   
   >>   
   >> The scripture said “who knew no sin” His Father made him sin IOW placed   
   >> all the sins of mankind upon Him for which Jesus paid the price for   
   >> all of   
   >> us. Jesus knew full well what was going to happen as he made clear in the   
   >> garden of Gethsemane when He asked his Father, if it be possible, take   
   >> this   
   >> cup away from me. He knew of the intense misery that he was about to   
   >> bear.   
   >> Yes. He was without sin, because of the life he lived. He lived as man,   
   >> subject to all the temptations of men, yet he fulfilled all the Law,   
   >> and was   
   >> sinless. As unspotted as a sacrificial lamb. For that reason hell   
   >> could not   
   >> contain him. And YES the sin he bore took him to the deepest part of   
   >> hell.   
   >   
   >   
   > Christ fully paid our sin debt by dying in our place ("it is finished"),   
   > not by suffering in Gehenna. However (in case James has to be   
   > listening), this does not mean that a person can simply die physically   
   > to atone for his sins. A human death is of finite value. Our sins are   
   > against an infinite God. Eternal torment in the lake of fire is the   
   > destiny of those who reject Christ's propitiating atonement for their sins.   
   >   
   > As McGee notes   
   >   
   > "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into   
   > the lower parts of the earth?" (Eph 4:9, KJV)   
   >   
   > The logical explanation of these verses is that since Christ ascended,   
   > He must have of necessity descended at some previous period. Some see   
   > only the Incarnation in this. The early church fathers saw in it the   
   > work of Christ in bringing the Old Testament saints out of paradise up   
   > to the throne of God. We are told that He descended into hell. It is not   
   > necessary, however, to assume that He entered into some form of   
   > suffering after His death. His incarnation and death were His   
   > humiliation and descent, and they were adequate to bring the redeemed of   
   > the Old Testament into the presence of God. That would explain His   
   > fullness here. “He that descended is the same also that ascended up far   
   > above all heavens, that he might fill all things.” I recognize, however,   
   > that there are other interpretations (McGee Ephesians 4:9).   
   >   
   >   
   >> But then all these things you should know and be aware of before I even   
   >> brought them to you from the scriptures. Eh?   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>> Think about it, throughout the history of Man a Lamb was sacrificed   
   >>>> for sin.   
   >>>> Not just any lamb, but one that was perfect and without a flaw. The   
   >>>> prime of   
   >>>> the prime.   
   >>>   
   >>> And His character, His being did not change.   
   >>   
   >> He died as man does, not God.   
   >>>   
   >>>> Jesus was the “lamb of God that taketh away all the sin”   
   >>>   
   >>> Amen. Spotless, pure, holy, and not act of man ever made Him otherwise.   
   >>>   
   >>>> “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold   
   >>>> the Lamb   
   >>>> of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” (Jhn 1:29, KJV)   
   >>>   
   >>> How did He do that?   
   >>>   
   >>>> Why are you beholden to the doctrine of the trinity as propagated by   
   >>>> the   
   >>>> RCC?   
   >>>   
   >>> Don't go off the reservation, Robert, if you do, it'll end the   
   >>> discussion.   
   >>   
   >> Fine then I will stop it here. the Bible does not teach the trinity.   
   >> Never   
   >> did. It is a doctrine of men.   
   >   
   >   
   > The Bible doesn't say the word "trinity". It does in fact teach that   
   > there is only one God Being, but that three distinct persons are God.   
   > They are one not in the mere sense of relational unity, but in divine   
   > essence. There are not three God Beings who are simply united by   
   > relationship or purpose. They are a single, solitary God Being--your   
   > inability to comprehend that not withstanding.   
   >   
   >   
   >>>>>> How can one person be three different persons? Are they a shape   
   >>>>>> shifter?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> One Spirit. Remember, post the fall the only reason we got a Son of   
   >>>>> God   
   >>>>> in the flesh is because God had to place separation in Himself (make a   
   >>>>> way) in order to bring His children back to and into Him.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Jesus was not born without a spirit. Man was created with a body   
   >>>> soul and   
   >>>> spirit. We all propagated after our own kind. Which we were created   
   >>>> to do   
   >>>> and   
   >>>> be. We are to worship God the Father and pray to Him. Not to Jesus.   
   >>>> (Which   
   >>>> is   
   >>>> hard to do solely, as Jesus Christ was our redeemer.) Yet we are   
   >>>> commanded   
   >>>> to   
   >>>> do so, and Jesus gave us the reasoning behind that in the scripture.   
   >>>   
   >>> There is no problem if you believe in One God.   
   >>>   
   >>> I always pray to the Lord because...that is the way God chose to   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)