89d81805   
   bd3be9ea   
   XPost: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.israel, alt.messianic   
   XPost: alt.bible, alt.atheism   
   From: dalton@nfld.com   
      
   On Jun 4, 2025, David Dalton wrote   
   (in article<0001HW.2DF0361600C6509C70000A28338F@news.eternal-september.org>):   
      
   > On Jun 4, 2025, Henderson wrote   
   > (in article <9oS%P.7270$9Zy4.2855@fx42.iad>):   
   >   
   > > David Dalton wrote:   
   > >   
   > > > Am I right in saying that in the Jewish Torah Jacob is said to   
   > > > have wrestled with his God whereas in the Christian Old Testament   
   > > > it says he wrestled with an angel?   
   > > >   
   > > > I believe the reference to Jacob “wrestling” with his God at night   
   > > > means he negotiated with his God on behalf of all humans   
   > > > in his (large, but not global) region, but over a period of   
   > > > 18 years, not just one night.   
   > >   
   > > It may really have been his brother Esau, which would make a lot of   
   > > sense, given their histories. Esau had reason to even the score with   
   > > Jacob, and Jacob had reason to repent for what he'd done to his brother.   
   >   
   > There are other brother pairs in mythology and religious history, including   
   >   
   > Nisien and Efnysien   
   > and   
   > Lleu and Dylan   
   > and   
   > Cain and Abel   
   >   
   > and probably a few more (I think a pair of Eastern European   
   > deities is mentioned in Neil Gaiman’s novel American Gods).   
      
   Also   
      
   Thor and Loki   
   Gwydion and Gilfaethwy   
      
   --   
   https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)   
   “And now the angry morning; Gives the early signs of warning; You must   
   face alone the plans you make; Decisions they will try to break" (S.McL.)   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)