XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.bible, alt.religion.chri   
   tian.east-orthodox   
   XPost: alt.christnet.christnews   
   From: .robert@mu.way   
      
   What is a common misunderstanding of many churches. What types of baptisms   
   are there. Why are so many misled and as a result there are false doctrines   
   floating about created by the minds of men, not just in this day but from   
   many centuries ago.   
      
   One issue is that most of our English translations have errors. In a large   
   part because of the teachings of said theocratic religions that influenced   
   the mind of men, those not being pure before Christ Jesus having introduced   
   and or mixed in pagan theologies in order to draw pagans into their churches.   
   Having done so, they mixed their theologies with the teachings of Christ in   
   order to make it more ‘palatable’ to the world and lessen the persecution   
   of those that believe in Christ Jesus. This is well known, yet denied by   
   those churches. As a result, and their use of force whereby they murdered   
   millions of believers who would not bend to their creed, they became   
   powerful, and persuasive to many. Yet a remnant remained faithful following   
   the Way of the Lord and not the way of religious men.   
      
   As a consequence, when there was a reformation that took place because of   
   their excessive sins and disobedience to God, there was much that needed to   
   be reformed because of the ways that they reshaped the Gospel of Jesus the   
   Messiah. Much was lost because of it. Many changes were needed in order to   
   conform to the Gospel of Christ. So many that even though there was a list of   
   some that were needed that were nailed to the doors of those people, which   
   did hit some of the highlights that were needed, that they could not list all   
   of them and also the nuances of ones walk with the Lord Jesus in their   
   hearts. We still feel the effects of that damage done, to this day in spite   
   of the outpourings of the Spirit of God as He worked new works one these many   
   years.   
   People often get set in their ‘religious ways’ and as a consequence their   
   hearts are hardened against some of the things of God having not been   
   emboldened to go all the way through and by the faith in God.   
      
   As a result the translations of the Bible have suffered as much of it was   
   shaped by their understandings of the doctrines of Jesus the Christ.   
   Doctrines meaning teachings of Christ. As exampled today by many   
   denominations who depend on their denominational teachings for their   
   understanding rather than listening to what the Spirit has been trying to say   
   to their hearts. There are many, very many examples of this, hence the war of   
   churches going on today, rather than coming in unity to the body of Christ   
   and so there are many divisions that remain.   
      
   Baptism is one of those items. So prevalent is this misunderstanding that   
   many when they her the word Baptize automatically think of Water. Water   
   Baptism, and while baptism by water is a basic and ordered sign or symbol of   
   ones belief and a full commitment to the Way of the Lord, it is but a part of   
   it.   
      
   Just what is Baptism?   
   The word itself speaks of an encompasses Full Immersion. Never the ladling or   
   sprinkling of water, but deep, over the top, full and total wetting or   
   immersion. Never even just a dip, or dipping. It by definition stemmed from   
   those that dyed cloth, not tie dying as is often done today, but a full   
   consistent permeation of the dye necessary for clothing and other purposes.   
   It also included ships that sunk at sea, in the days of old where even the   
   tips of the masts were fully under water enveloping all of the ship inside   
   and out like the dye permeates the pores of the cloth.   
      
   So enveloping was the meaning of this word that it was virtually   
   transliterated into English, a nothing else would suffice for understanding.   
   Yet that has been ‘watered’ down by suggesting alternative means. That is   
   so sad as it also inadvertently weakens the other forms of Baptism and hence   
   the understanding of many by lowering the threshold of commitment to God   
   enabling weak christianity.   
      
   Following here are some scriptures the 2nd verse of which was very poorly   
   translated into one of the Versions of the Bible with understandings that   
   affects many other translations which follow its understandings to this day.   
   That being the KJV. Other translations preceding this one were better in most   
   regards, but this is why the leading of the Holy Spirit is so vital, that we   
   must tune our ears to hear what the spirit sayeth.   
      
   I will quote the KJV straight out with comments to follow, however, note   
   please that right off the bat it speaks of three forms of baptism, two of   
   which are with water.   
      
   Act 19:1-7   
      
   1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed   
   through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,   
      
   2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And   
   they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy   
   Ghost.   
      
   3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto   
   John's baptism.   
      
   4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying   
   unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him,   
   that is, on Christ Jesus.   
      
   5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.   
      
   6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them;   
   and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.   
      
   7 And all the men were about twelve.   
      
   Three types of Baptism mentioned here.   
      
   1- the baptism of John the Baptist, with the water baptism of repentance.   
      
   2- the baptism by Jesus of the Holy Ghost for the Born Again believer.   
      
   3- the water baptism of the ones made holy through the blood of Christ Jesus   
   as a witness of their commitment.   
      
   These baptisms/immersions are not the only ones mentioned for the New   
   Covenant, and #1 was done under the old covenant. Not relevant for the NT.   
   Repentance is relevant and is done from the heart necessary also for the   
   renewal of the mind, purging out the old man.   
      
   Now as to the 2nd verse,   
      
   "(ASV)and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed?   
   And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy   
   Spirit was *given*. “   
      
   Therefore he asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you   
   believed?” In the KJV Paul's question reads, “Have ye received the Holy   
   Ghost since ye believed?” This wrongly implies that the reception of the   
   Holy Spirit takes place subsequent to salvation.   
      
   The thought of this verse is not that the reception of the Holy Spirit is a   
   work of grace which follows salvation. As soon as a sinner trusts the Savior,   
   he receives the Holy Spirit.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)