home bbs files messages ]

Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"

   alt.bible      General bible-thumping discussions      96,161 messages   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]

   Message 94,292 of 96,161   
   Christ Rose to All   
   Re: The Denial Christ Is God Fraud   
   02 Oct 25 10:20:56   
   
   XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.religion.christian   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   Colossians 1:15–17 answers the claim directly. You quoted Strong’s   
   definition of prototokos as “firstborn” and then assumed that must mean   
   Christ was the first created being. But that ignores both (1) the fuller   
   lexical range and (2) the immediate context.   
      
   Strong’s gives the root gloss “firstborn,” but it does not determine how   
   the word functions in a given passage. Scripture itself interprets   
   “firstborn” as a title of rank or supremacy, not merely birth order.   
   Psalm 89:27 makes this plain: “I will make him the firstborn, the   
   highest of the kings of the earth.” David was the youngest of Jesse’s   
   sons (1 Samuel 16:11), yet God calls him “firstborn” because He gave him   
   supremacy. Strong’s even admits the word is used “literally or   
   figuratively.” Colossians 1 is one of those figurative   
   contexts—supremacy over creation.   
      
   And Paul explains his own meaning in the very next verses:   
      
         “For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth,   
          visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or   
          authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And   
          he is before all things, and in him all things hold together”   
          (Colossians 1:16–17, ESV).   
      
   Notice carefully:   
      
   1. “By him all things were created.”   
      
   If Christ were part of creation, Paul would have to say “all other   
   things.” But he does not. He includes everything—“in heaven and on   
   earth, visible and invisible.” Nothing is left out. Even "Jehovah's   
   Witnesses" understand this, which is why they felt it necessary to   
   fabricate the NWT to repeatedly insert the word "other" into Colossians   
   1, where it does not occur, and (unlike most translations) where   
   inserting the word makes it mean the perfect opposite of what it plainly   
   states without the addition of the word.   
      
   2. “He is before all things.” That shows His eternal pre-existence, not   
   creatureliness.   
      
   3. “In him all things hold together.” The universe continues to exist by   
   His sustaining power—something only God Himself does.   
      
   If prototokos meant “the first created being,” Paul would have   
   contradicted himself in the very next sentence by saying Christ created   
   *all things*. Instead, prototokos refers to Christ’s supremacy, His   
   heirship, His rank over all creation. Scripture confirms this meaning by   
   how it uses the word elsewhere, not by a bare gloss.   
      
   Exodus 6:3 likewise does not imply God lied. The patriarchs knew the   
   name Yahweh, as Genesis shows, but they had not yet experienced its   
   covenant fulfillment in redemption from Egypt. To render Yahweh as LORD   
   is not calling God a liar, but following the ancient Jewish practice of   
   reading Adonai aloud in place of the divine name.   
      
   Far from supporting the idea that Christ is created, both Colossians 1   
   and Exodus 6 affirm God’s truthfulness and Christ’s eternal supremacy.   
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
   https://christrose.news/salvation   
      
   To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful   
   images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like   
   Thunderbird:   
      
   https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]


(c) 1994,  bbs@darkrealms.ca