[continued from previous message]   
      
   things, nor does it mean that Jesus was just a pipeline conduit, it means   
   that by the Word of God these things came to be. You are tying the semantic   
   game, deceitfully. If not then tell the world that in this case that by and   
   through mean the same things, and thus Jesus is God.   
      
   John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made   
   that was made.   
      
   by him were all things created] The person we now know as Jesus Christ, the   
   only begotten Son of God, existed as an equal member of the Godhead from all   
   eternity (Isa 7:14; Isa 9:6-7; Mic 5:2; Jhn 1:1-2; Heb 1:8; Rev 1:8-11).   
   Before He became God’s Son (sonship refers to humanity, not to deity, note,   
   Act 13:33). He was a spirit being and carried out the divine plan of   
   creation. He was the direct agent of God the Father who created all things by   
   Him In the same manner as the son of Trump builds large buildings which they   
   both agree upon.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > >   
   > > A couple things of note there, Paul spoke of himself as being the least of   
   > > all Saints, yet the works that he did was perhaps the greatest and most   
   > > influential of all, even to this day. Paul, like Jesus Humbled himself   
   > > before his Heavenly Father, as did Jesus.   
   >   
   > Just think about what you are saying. If Jesus is God, God humbled   
   > Himself before Himself.   
      
   See, that is your trinitarian mindset, which you claim you do not believe.   
   >   
   >   
   > The churches must really have a good hold on you. It is their illogic   
   > that you need to consider.   
      
   That is a false understanding of yours, your mindset. I follow no church, I   
   follow Jesus. Seems you cannot tell the truth about anything.   
   >   
   >   
   > > Humility does not mean that a being is a   
   > > subordinate of another, but that they chose to honor the others over   
   > > themselves in any manner via humility.   
   >   
   > So God (Jesus) honors God over God. And pigs can fly.   
      
   There is your “church mindset” speaking. I have shown you the truth   
   previously, and many times. Each time you deny it, and the scriptures given   
   to you as I have done in this post.   
   >   
   >   
   > >   
   > > Plus as it is written, above, Jesus was the creator..... God. Thus you   
   agree   
   > > with that statement as you stated many times that you believe ALL the   
   > > scripture. Therefore Jesus IS God. Per your beliefs, yet we all understand   
   > > that you deny Jesus is God. You, not Scripture.   
   >   
   > Sorry, but I go by REAL Scripture. Jesus plainly tells the world that   
   > God is more powerful than he is. (John 14:28) To say it in reverse is   
   > also true. Jesus is less powerful than God. THEREFORE JESUS CANNOT BE   
   > GOD!!!!!!   
      
   “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in   
   heaven and in earth.” (Mat 28:18)   
      
   The verse you mentioned does not state that at all. There is no conflict of   
   any type between Jesus and His Heavenly Father they are one in agreement in   
   all things. If you truly want to know then why not give your heart to Jesus   
   and believe in and upon Him and be Born Again. Let His light shine in you,   
   and then study the world and allow Him to teach you in all things. Why follow   
   the ways of sinful men with the lusts thereof?   
      
   >   
   >   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again   
   > > > > unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto   
   the   
   > > > > Father: for my Father is greater than I.   
   > > >   
   > > > Thus Jesus can't be God. But if he was what Jesus is saying is 'For I   
   > > > am greater than myself'.   
   > >   
   > > He did not say that, you did.   
   >   
   > When you make the equation Jesus = God, it is exactly what he is   
   > saying.   
      
   ¥es, but I have a feeling you did not mean to say what you did.   
   >   
   >   
   > > Jesus said also not to direct questions and   
   > > prayers to himself, but to the Heavenly Father, and that He would be the   
   one   
   > > who did what we asked of the Heavenly Father so that the Heavenly Father   
   > > would be glorified.   
   >   
   > Yes, and Jesus' God is God:   
   >   
   > - King James   
   > Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,   
   > saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,   
   > why hast thou forsaken me?   
      
   Of course. Jesus always defers to His Father.   
      
   “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my   
   Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father,   
   and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (Jhn 20:17)   
      
   Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the   
   glory which I had with thee before the world was.   
      
   Remember that Jesus set that aside to be born as Man, and to die as Man?   
      
   >   
   > >   
   > > Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the   
   works   
   > > that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;   
   > > because I go unto my Father.   
   >   
   > And who has done works greater than Jesus?   
      
   What is your definition of Greater?   
   >   
   >   
   > >   
   > > Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the   
   > > Father may be glorified in the Son.   
   >   
   > Again, we see the relationship: FATHER AND SON, not God and God.   
   Mrk 10:7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave   
   to his wife;   
      
   Mrk 10:8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain,   
   but one flesh.   
      
   Mrk 10:9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.   
      
   I am one with Christ as Christ is with His Father. I am also a son of God the   
   Father, and He IS my Heavenly Father.   
      
   > > Jhn 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.   
   >   
   > Actually God will do it, THROUGH Jesus:   
      
   So you chose not to believe Scripture, again? Jesus spoke clearly, “I will   
   do it”   
   Again you speak with deceit, you parrot the words of the watchtower, lacking   
   knowledge, wisdom.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > - Revised Standard   
   > John 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge;   
   > and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will   
   > of him who sent me.   
      
   That was Jesus, the man, but now His Glory as been restored to him that he   
   set aside to be born as man.   
   >   
   > >   
   > > I hope you come to understand these words of Jesus, and not call him a   
   liar.   
   > > He IS THE Son of God.   
   >   
   > I have never called Jesus a liar, unless someone twists the Scriptures   
   > to make him so. Based on all the Scriptures Jesus never lied.   
      
   You just called him a liar when he clearly stated, “I will do it”, You   
   also deny that he has been given all power both in the heavens as well as   
   here on earth. You swap translations when you quote scripture to ones that   
   use words that you can twist the definitions of. You do not stick to the NWT   
   that you claim is the only correct one, and the reason for that is because   
   even that one does not support your doctrines and dogmas.   
   >   
   >   
   > > >   
   > > >   
   > > > >   
   > > > > The scriptures do not concur with you. “While Jesus was in Heaven   
   with   
   > > > > God:” The scriptures all concur in that Jesus is far, far greater   
   than   
   > > > > you, that He is the head of every man. 1Cor 11:3 Which includes all men   
   > > > > of any religion whether it be false or true. That he was so before the   
   worlds   
   > > > > began.   
   > > >   
   > > > Yes, and that Scripture also says that God is greater than Jesus.   
   > >   
   > > Of course the scripture says that, Jesus said it. You claim to despise the   
   > > idea of a Trinity, yet you keep returning to that concept as if the Godhead   
   > > is one being. Not one in Unity, but One Person. Using that as justification   
   > > for defaming Jesus, the one you claim to server and follow. Why do you seek   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)