[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > It is also why Jesus said to pray that the will of the Father be free to   
   > > operate on earth, as He does in heaven.   
   >   
   > If the Father knows all, what's the point of asking about it?   
      
   Jesus is not the Father. It was a point that the young man made about Jesus   
   the prayers of man that he blessed and then handed it to the Heavenly Father   
   to bless, and return the answers for them. It is also backed up in scripture   
   From the first chapter of Genesis on.   
   >   
   >   
   > > >   
   > > > > > Oh, and also he doesn't close his eyes when he prays. I found that   
   > > > > > to be kind of strange.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Many others do as well, I say that because of several leaders I know   
   do it   
   > > > > both ways in public. There is no formula for prayers. After all, in the   
   > > > > old   
   > > > > days when one presented their case to their kings for consideration,   
   they   
   > > > > did   
   > > > > so with eyes open when they said, I pray thee Lord so and so.   
   > > > > In speaking to God he sees the heart and its intent.   
   > > >   
   > > > So do you pray to God with your eyes open? Why or why not?   
   > >   
   > > Sometimes either way. If I my driving and I see something like an accident   
   > > with people attending to whoever was involved I pray for them in a variety   
   > > of   
   > > ways. Obviously with my eyes open. Sometimes I do the same when I am   
   > > reading,   
   > > or writing, or see and or hear news of bad things happening, same when good   
   > > things are happening to give praise. At home in private, normally I close   
   my   
   > > eyes Just because...and it helps keep one focused.   
   >   
   > Wow. Do you even bow when you pray, to at least show respect for your   
   > god?   
      
   And home I bend the knee to him. And on occasion on my face, depending.   
   He saved me both in this life as well as the next. He spared my life several   
   times, and I cannot thank him enough for that.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > If you cared about your life after death, then you should check   
   your   
   > > > > > > options.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > I don't care about it strictly because I don't believe it. It's not   
   > > > > > as if I saw, it believed it, and decided not to "check my options."   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Yet you cannot deny that you never heard of it. So when you see the   
   > > > > reality   
   > > > > of it that you won’t be able to say ‘I was never warned’.   
   > > >   
   > > > There is insufficient evidence to constitute being "warned."   
   > >   
   > > Not at all, because someone ignores it and acts all indifferent to a   
   warning   
   > > because they did not feel any imminent threat or danger does not dismiss or   
   > > diminish the warning. Noah warned men of the impending flood for 120 years   
   > > as he and his family built the ark. All he got was jeers, mocking, etc. but   
   > > when   
   > > he got into the ark and sealed the doors and then there came rain and it   
   did   
   > > not stop. You can bet people changed their minds.   
   >   
   > If God sets things up so that they look like they can be mocked, and   
   > then those things are mocked, whose fault is that?   
      
   It depends on your view point, mine is different. In any event, when the   
   rains started pouring down, and the water started rising, the mocking   
   stopped. Why was that?   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > Why? Because the default is Hell and then the Lake of Fire.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > The idea of Hell is pure barbarism.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > That too is the thought of those against the death penalty for rape and   
   > > > > murder. And the same arguments are made against that. In spite of the   
   fact   
   > > > > that these people are often repeat offenders. Now that same thinking   
   is in   
   > > > > place in many cities for any crime resulting in Prison time.   
   > > >   
   > > > Torture has no place in a civilized society, regardless of the crime,   
   > > > so it's far less civilized if it goes on for *years* -- or worst of   
   > > > all, *forever.*   
   > >   
   > > Some people get their kicks from being tortured. Even pay for it.   
   > > There are many forms of torment. And there are varying degrees of torment   
   in   
   > > the lake of Fire based on the actions and intents of those that are sent   
   > > there. It was never meant for man. It was designed for Lucifer and his   
   > > angels. All who go there will not why, and will know why they are deserving   
   > > of it, not that it lessens their suffering.   
   >   
   > If some people get their kicks from being tortured, why don't you go   
   > find them and torture them? That would be fun for everyone, wouldn't   
   > it? Now, Hell may have been meant for Lucifer, but you believe it now   
   > accommodates humans as well, but even the savage Native Americans   
   > wouldn't spend more than an afternoon torturing someone to death. Can   
   > you imagine, then, what kind of a diabolic God would spend a billion   
   > afternoons torturing someone in Hell?   
      
   It is not for man to judge, for he looks on the outward appearance where as   
   God looks at the heart.   
      
   What God would give a man a billion afternoons of peace and pure delights?   
   And what God would want a billion Karen’s there to oppose him and the   
   people that entered heaven?   
      
   In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured for up to 10 days.   
   Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the RCC tortured for   
   days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it was pure evil.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > When bad things happen to bad people, it is called karma by many, and   
   others   
   > > feel it is well justified.   
   > > There is nothing on this earth that can ease the torment that a child has   
   > > from suffering sexual abuse, and all their lives they live with the effects   
   > > of it. Same with other crimes against humanity. How much suffering does the   
   > > offender deserve? Especially when a simple death sentence does not restore   
   > > the abused, nor would it lessen the Childs pain throughout their life by   
   > > knowing the offender was paying a lifetime sentence. Something to think   
   > > about.   
   >   
   > You seem to have forgotten about when bad things happen to good   
   > people, or when good things happen to bad people -- a failure of   
   > karma. Now, how many *years* of fiendish torture in the fires of Hell   
   > do you believe are necessary when dealing with child molesters?   
      
   I leave that in Gods hands and His wisdom. I know and understand the why’s   
   of the first part of your paragraph.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > If Miracles still occur there must be a reason behind it.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > You're getting ahead of yourself there.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > I disagree, because miracles have been happening for 2K years.   
   > > >   
   > > > Because your YouTube videos told you so?   
   > >   
   > > That is a ridiculous slam.   
   >   
   > What sources do you use besides YouTube, that lead you to believe   
   > miracles have been happening for 2K years (should be 6K, but, then   
   > those are your beliefs, not mine)?   
      
   Well the miracles during the times of Israel happened and were known of WW.   
   They were somewhat limited because of the Law Covenant, the NT is a new,   
   different, and better covenant.   
      
   There are recorded miracles throughout the centuries, some fake, but the   
   believers recorded enough real ones throughout history. Before You Tube use   
   of videos of real events people saw them with their own eyes. Telling others.   
   In the Jesus movement there were many reporting, via the ministry of Oral   
   Roberts and many others there was many, same with Kathryn Kuhlman. And others   
   since then.   
      
   But the best is soon to come and is already on its way.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > I know of several deaths brought back to life when it was medically   
   > > > > impossible to do. One being a healthy baby in the womb but when Born   
   was   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)