[continued from previous message]   
      
   >to bless, and return the answers for them. It is also backed up in scripture   
   >From the first chapter of Genesis on.   
      
   No, the plural of God in the book of Genesis is just a remnant of   
   early Israelite polytheism.  It has nothing to do with God the Father.   
   >> > > > > Oh, and also he doesn't close his eyes when he prays. I   
   found that   
   >> > > > > to be kind of strange.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Many others do as well, I say that because of several leaders I know   
   do it   
   >> > > > both ways in public. There is no formula for prayers. After all, in   
   the   
   >> > > > old   
   >> > > > days when one presented their case to their kings for consideration,   
   they   
   >> > > > did   
   >> > > > so with eyes open when they said, I pray thee Lord so and so.   
   >> > > > In speaking to God he sees the heart and its intent.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > So do you pray to God with your eyes open? Why or why not?   
   >> >   
   >> > Sometimes either way. If I my driving and I see something like an accident   
   >> > with people attending to whoever was involved I pray for them in a variety   
   >> > of   
   >> > ways. Obviously with my eyes open. Sometimes I do the same when I am   
   >> > reading,   
   >> > or writing, or see and or hear news of bad things happening, same when   
   good   
   >> > things are happening to give praise. At home in private, normally I close   
   my   
   >> > eyes Just because...and it helps keep one focused.   
   >>   
   >> Wow. Do you even bow when you pray, to at least show respect for your   
   >> god?   
   >   
   >And home I bend the knee to him. And on occasion on my face, depending.   
   >He saved me both in this life as well as the next. He spared my life several   
   >times, and I cannot thank him enough for that.   
      
   But if he hadn't saved your life, you would be in heaven right now,   
   wouldn't you?  Is that situation good or bad?  And why would God spare   
   your life and not others?   
      
   >> > > > > > If you cared about your life after death, then you should check   
   your   
   >> > > > > > options.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > I don't care about it strictly because I don't believe it. It's not   
   >> > > > > as if I saw, it believed it, and decided not to "check my options."   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Yet you cannot deny that you never heard of it. So when you see the   
   >> > > > reality   
   >> > > > of it that you won’t be able to say ‘I was never warned’.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > There is insufficient evidence to constitute being "warned."   
   >> >   
   >> > Not at all, because someone ignores it and acts all indifferent to a   
   warning   
   >> > because they did not feel any imminent threat or danger does not dismiss   
   or   
   >> > diminish the warning. Noah warned men of the impending flood for 120 years   
   >> > as he and his family built the ark. All he got was jeers, mocking, etc.   
   but   
   >> > when   
   >> > he got into the ark and sealed the doors and then there came rain and it   
   did   
   >> > not stop. You can bet people changed their minds.   
   >>   
   >> If God sets things up so that they look like they can be mocked, and   
   >> then those things are mocked, whose fault is that?   
   >   
   >It depends on your view point, mine is different. In any event, when the   
   >rains started pouring down, and the water started rising, the mocking   
   >stopped. Why was that?   
      
   The point is, there should've been no mocking to begin with, if God   
   were sensible.   
      
   >> > > > > > Why? Because the default is Hell and then the Lake of Fire.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > The idea of Hell is pure barbarism.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > That too is the thought of those against the death penalty for rape   
   and   
   >> > > > murder. And the same arguments are made against that. In spite of the   
   fact   
   >> > > > that these people are often repeat offenders. Now that same thinking   
   is in   
   >> > > > place in many cities for any crime resulting in Prison time.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Torture has no place in a civilized society, regardless of the crime,   
   >> > > so it's far less civilized if it goes on for *years* -- or worst of   
   >> > > all, *forever.*   
   >> >   
   >> > Some people get their kicks from being tortured. Even pay for it.   
   >> > There are many forms of torment. And there are varying degrees of torment   
   in   
   >> > the lake of Fire based on the actions and intents of those that are sent   
   >> > there. It was never meant for man. It was designed for Lucifer and his   
   >> > angels. All who go there will not why, and will know why they are   
   deserving   
   >> > of it, not that it lessens their suffering.   
   >>   
   >> If some people get their kicks from being tortured, why don't you go   
   >> find them and torture them? That would be fun for everyone, wouldn't   
   >> it? Now, Hell may have been meant for Lucifer, but you believe it now   
   >> accommodates humans as well, but even the savage Native Americans   
   >> wouldn't spend more than an afternoon torturing someone to death. Can   
   >> you imagine, then, what kind of a diabolic God would spend a billion   
   >> afternoons torturing someone in Hell?   
   >   
   >It is not for man to judge, for he looks on the outward appearance where as   
   >God looks at the heart.   
      
   That has nothing to do with a fiendish God torturing people in Hell.   
      
   >What God would give a man a billion afternoons of peace and pure delights?   
   >And what God would want a billion Karen’s there to oppose him and the   
   >people that entered heaven?   
      
   Non sequitur.   
      
   >In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured for up to 10 days.   
   >Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the RCC tortured for   
   >days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it was pure evil.   
      
   Hell supposedly lasts forever, not 10 days.  And when was Samson,   
   specifically, tortured for much longer?  In that folk tale, don't they   
   just put out his eyes?   
      
   >> > When bad things happen to bad people, it is called karma by many, and   
   others   
   >> > feel it is well justified.   
   >> > There is nothing on this earth that can ease the torment that a child has   
   >> > from suffering sexual abuse, and all their lives they live with the   
   effects   
   >> > of it. Same with other crimes against humanity. How much suffering does   
   the   
   >> > offender deserve? Especially when a simple death sentence does not restore   
   >> > the abused, nor would it lessen the Childs pain throughout their life by   
   >> > knowing the offender was paying a lifetime sentence. Something to think   
   >> > about.   
   >>   
   >> You seem to have forgotten about when bad things happen to good   
   >> people, or when good things happen to bad people -- a failure of   
   >> karma. Now, how many *years* of fiendish torture in the fires of Hell   
   >> do you believe are necessary when dealing with child molesters?   
   >   
   >I leave that in Gods hands and His wisdom. I know and understand the why’s   
   >of the first part of your paragraph.   
      
   LOL!  You bet you should leave it there, since you yourself have no   
   answer for it.   
      
   >> > > > > > If Miracles still occur there must be a reason behind it.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > You're getting ahead of yourself there.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > I disagree, because miracles have been happening for 2K years.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Because your YouTube videos told you so?   
   >> >   
   >> > That is a ridiculous slam.   
   >>   
   >> What sources do you use besides YouTube, that lead you to believe   
   >> miracles have been happening for 2K years (should be 6K, but, then   
   >> those are your beliefs, not mine)?   
   >   
   >Well the miracles during the times of Israel happened and were known of WW.   
   >They were somewhat limited because of the Law Covenant, the NT is a new,   
   >different, and better covenant.   
      
   So the first covenant was a mistake by God? And there were no miracles   
   in ancient Israel known "world wide".   
      
   >There are recorded miracles throughout the centuries, some fake, but the   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)