[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> > The latter, of course, but the Apostle Paul was just mentioned and His   
   trip   
   >> > to heaven so I could not tell to whom you were referring.   
   >>   
   >> If it was the latter, why does Gabe describe his condition being   
   >> teetering between life and death, rather than just death?   
   >   
   >From what I gathered those things happened on and off during various days in   
   >the midst of the 18 days.   
   >His book coming out should cover a whole lot more detail, and I plan on   
   >buying it to see what all was written.   
      
   What do you think about his association with Kenneth Copeland?   
      
   >> > Obviously the yung man said he was dead, with rigor mortise at the fore,   
   and   
   >> > at the end he was to be or about to be, put into a body bag.   
   >>   
   >> What about post-mortem decay, as mentioned by some other poster?   
   >   
   >What about it, they did not view the video, you did, you also heard that they   
   >put him on life support systems, which is typically done on the dead in order   
   >to preserve short term viability in order to harvest organs from those that   
   >are organ donors.   
      
   They had to wait 18 days after he died to harvest his organs?  Was he   
   even an organ donor to begin with?   
      
   >That is the problem with agendized dismissive arguments, they toss out all   
   >forms of reality to focus on something that fits their narrative and thereby   
   >project false conclusions.   
      
   Well, you're definitely not a purveyor of "reality."   
      
   >> > > > > > > and finally   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > *why couldn't it have been his "time" yet, to stay in heaven   
   rather   
   >> > > > > > > than returning to earth?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > He said that Jesus wanted him to return and share what he had   
   seen and   
   >> > > > > > observed., that it was not his “appointed time to die”. This is   
   not   
   >> > > > > > an   
   >> > > > > > uncommon thing to feel for those that Believe, I know of a few   
   others   
   >> > > > > > who   
   >> > > > > > had   
   >> > > > > > similar experiences, although the ones I know of, were solid   
   believers   
   >> > > > > > before   
   >> > > > > > they left and two of them were given a choice. Even though Jesus   
   told   
   >> > > > > > them   
   >> > > > > > that there was more for them to do.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Why would an omnipotent being need the assistance of mere humans to   
   >> > > > > accomplish his goals?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Because he gave the dominion of this earth and all that was on it, to   
   man.   
   >> > > > Which is why anti god people can exercise their free will thinking.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > So why couldn't some of that dominion be taken back, if it's leading   
   >> > > to inefficiency in, shall we say, harvesting souls? And the ability   
   >> > > of anti-god people to exercise free will in thinking was not at issue   
   >> > > at this point in the conversation.   
   >> >   
   >> > Free will is an ongoing issue that must be understood as a right. As well   
   as   
   >> > the responsibilities that go with it.   
   >>   
   >> Those are already understood.   
   >>   
   >> > If is not in God to take things back that he has promised to all men.   
   >> > Promised given by himself with no strings attached stand according to His   
   >> > will. Covenants that have stipulations is a covenant between two parties.   
   >> > God is a God of his word.   
   >>   
   >> So if God makes a mistake, he's unable to fix it, lest he break his word?   
   >   
   >That is assuming that he actually makes mistakes, How can a perfect being   
   >make a mistake?   
      
   He couldn't, but then your alleged God is not a perfect being.  He   
   would have to be fallible if he created a dominion for man that didn't   
   work out.   
      
   >> > > > It is also why Jesus said to pray that the will of the Father be free   
   to   
   >> > > > operate on earth, as He does in heaven.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > If the Father knows all, what's the point of asking about it?   
   >> >   
   >> > Jesus is not the Father.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, but what would he be doing praying to the Father? Is the Father   
   >> hard of hearing when it comes to who prays to him?   
   >   
   >Praying is talking, holding a conversation with, both in this world, as well   
   >as between this world and the spiritual world that has and will always exist.   
      
   No, prayer is just talking to yourself.  Otherwise, in your   
   conversation with God, he would be able to tell you things like what's   
   the temperature outside -- but he can only tell you things that you   
   already know, indicating that in prayer is, like I said, just talking   
   to yourself.   
      
   >> > It was a point that the young man made about Jesus   
   >> > the prayers of man that he blessed and then handed it to the Heavenly   
   Father   
   >> > to bless, and return the answers for them. It is also backed up in   
   scripture   
   >> > From the first chapter of Genesis on.   
   >>   
   >> No, the plural of God in the book of Genesis is just a remnant of   
   >> early Israelite polytheism. It has nothing to do with God the Father.   
   >   
   >It was mentioned before there were any Israelites. The young man mentioned   
   >the realities of that without making a big point about it, for which I’d   
   >bet many religious types will flack him for it, as well as calling him a   
   >total fraud because it does not match up with their supposed doctrines of   
   >men. Jesus when he returned to the Father was seated at the right hand of the   
   >Heavenly Father. NOT on the throne of the Heavenly Father.   
      
   No, the setting of the story in Genesis is pre-Israelite but in   
   reality it was composed in Israel much later than that.  And Jesus   
   sitting at the right hand of his Father is a remnant from the early   
   days of Jesus' preachings, when he was considered to be somewhat less   
   of a ruler than his Father was.   
      
   >> > > > > > > Oh, and also he doesn't close his eyes when he prays. I   
   >> found that   
   >> > > > > > > to be kind of strange.   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Many others do as well, I say that because of several leaders I   
   know do   
   >> > > > > > it   
   >> > > > > > both ways in public. There is no formula for prayers. After all,   
   in the   
   >> > > > > > old   
   >> > > > > > days when one presented their case to their kings for   
   consideration,   
   >> > > > > > they   
   >> > > > > > did   
   >> > > > > > so with eyes open when they said, I pray thee Lord so and so.   
   >> > > > > > In speaking to God he sees the heart and its intent.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > So do you pray to God with your eyes open? Why or why not?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Sometimes either way. If I my driving and I see something like an   
   accident   
   >> > > > with people attending to whoever was involved I pray for them in a   
   variety   
   >> > > > of   
   >> > > > ways. Obviously with my eyes open. Sometimes I do the same when I am   
   >> > > > reading,   
   >> > > > or writing, or see and or hear news of bad things happening, same when   
   >> > > > good   
   >> > > > things are happening to give praise. At home in private, normally I   
   close   
   >> > > > my   
   >> > > > eyes Just because...and it helps keep one focused.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Wow. Do you even bow when you pray, to at least show respect for your   
   >> > > god?   
   >> >   
   >> > And home I bend the knee to him. And on occasion on my face, depending.   
   >> > He saved me both in this life as well as the next. He spared my life   
   several   
   >> > times, and I cannot thank him enough for that.   
   >>   
   >> But if he hadn't saved your life, you would be in heaven right now,   
   >> wouldn't you? Is that situation good or bad? And why would God spare   
   >> your life and not others?   
   >   
   >Perhaps, I don’t really know for sure, because at those times my life was   
   >not right before God. He saved me I am sure because of a couple things, one   
   >he wanted me to be spiritually saved, the other because of the prayers of my   
   >concerned mother. I know that the fear of death was not with me. Only that I   
      
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