[continued from previous message]   
      
   >knew at that time is was a very real possibility. I cannot fully understand   
   >it, neither then or afterwards, or even now. I am however, thankful to Him   
   >for it.   
      
   Why couldn't you go to heaven and get spiritually saved there?   
   Wouldn't that be fun?   
      
   >> > > > > > > > If you cared about your life after death, then you should   
   check your   
   >> > > > > > > > options.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > I don't care about it strictly because I don't believe it. It's   
   not   
   >> > > > > > > as if I saw, it believed it, and decided not to "check my   
   options."   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Yet you cannot deny that you never heard of it. So when you see   
   the   
   >> > > > > > reality   
   >> > > > > > of it that you won’t be able to say ‘I was never warned’.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > There is insufficient evidence to constitute being "warned."   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Not at all, because someone ignores it and acts all indifferent to a   
   >> > > > warning   
   >> > > > because they did not feel any imminent threat or danger does not   
   dismiss   
   >> > > > or   
   >> > > > diminish the warning. Noah warned men of the impending flood for 120   
   years   
   >> > > > as he and his family built the ark. All he got was jeers, mocking,   
   etc.   
   >> > > > but   
   >> > > > when   
   >> > > > he got into the ark and sealed the doors and then there came rain and   
   it   
   >> > > > did   
   >> > > > not stop. You can bet people changed their minds.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > If God sets things up so that they look like they can be mocked, and   
   >> > > then those things are mocked, whose fault is that?   
   >> >   
   >> > It depends on your view point, mine is different. In any event, when the   
   >> > rains started pouring down, and the water started rising, the mocking   
   >> > stopped. Why was that?   
   >>   
   >> The point is, there should've been no mocking to begin with, if God   
   >> were sensible.   
   >   
   >Why is that? Is it not part of human nature that it born into sin to mock God   
   >and those who follow him?   
      
   It's human nature to mock the laughing stocks, not those who are worth   
   dealing with.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > Why? Because the default is Hell and then the Lake of Fire.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > The idea of Hell is pure barbarism.   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > That too is the thought of those against the death penalty for   
   rape and   
   >> > > > > > murder. And the same arguments are made against that. In spite of   
   the   
   >> > > > > > fact   
   >> > > > > > that these people are often repeat offenders. Now that same   
   thinking is   
   >> > > > > > in   
   >> > > > > > place in many cities for any crime resulting in Prison time.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Torture has no place in a civilized society, regardless of the   
   crime,   
   >> > > > > so it's far less civilized if it goes on for *years* -- or worst of   
   >> > > > > all, *forever.*   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Some people get their kicks from being tortured. Even pay for it.   
   >> > > > There are many forms of torment. And there are varying degrees of   
   torment   
   >> > > > in   
   >> > > > the lake of Fire based on the actions and intents of those that are   
   sent   
   >> > > > there. It was never meant for man. It was designed for Lucifer and his   
   >> > > > angels. All who go there will not why, and will know why they are   
   >> > > > deserving   
   >> > > > of it, not that it lessens their suffering.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > If some people get their kicks from being tortured, why don't you go   
   >> > > find them and torture them? That would be fun for everyone, wouldn't   
   >> > > it? Now, Hell may have been meant for Lucifer, but you believe it now   
   >> > > accommodates humans as well, but even the savage Native Americans   
   >> > > wouldn't spend more than an afternoon torturing someone to death. Can   
   >> > > you imagine, then, what kind of a diabolic God would spend a billion   
   >> > > afternoons torturing someone in Hell?   
   >> >   
   >> > It is not for man to judge, for he looks on the outward appearance where   
   as   
   >> > God looks at the heart.   
   >>   
   >> That has nothing to do with a fiendish God torturing people in Hell.   
   >   
   >Have you ever had occasion to beat yourself up because of a stupid mistake,   
   >or judgment?   
   >If so, and you found yourself after death outside of Heaven and dwelling in a   
   >place with total absences of love in any form, absent of peace, dwelling with   
   >millions of others just like you, and everything about you was dead, no   
   >living vegetation, no water, etc. There is no joy there, just a bunch of   
   >Karens along with Satan and his demons mocking you as an image of God who   
   >they hate, and then you replay in your mind all the errors big and small as   
   >you relive those there. All those things being a choice you personally made   
   >and are responsible for. That alone would be a torment without end, and all   
   >if it of your own making.   
      
   And don't forget the fire of Hell itself.  Real flames, right?  I   
   notice you didn't mention that in your description of Hell. And by the   
   way, in the Bible, Satan is punished in Hell.  He doesn't rule over   
   like Sunday School theology would have us believe.   
      
   >> > What God would give a man a billion afternoons of peace and pure delights?   
   >> > And what God would want a billion Karen’s there to oppose him and the   
   >> > people that entered heaven?   
   >>   
   >> Non sequitur.   
   >Can’t relate. Eh?   
      
    I can relate to it, all right.  It's just that it has nothing to do   
   with what we were taking about.   
      
   >> > In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured for up to 10   
   days.   
   >> > Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the RCC tortured for   
   >> > days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it was pure evil.   
   >>   
   >> Hell supposedly lasts forever, not 10 days. And when was Samson,   
   >> specifically, tortured for much longer? In that folk tale, don't they   
   >> just put out his eyes?   
   >   
   >Yes. But that was not hell I was speaking of. It is torture that you   
   >mentioned, that was somehow limited in time and scope. Or did you forget your   
   >premise just made above?   
      
   What does Samson have to do with what we're discussing?   
      
   >> > > > When bad things happen to bad people, it is called karma by many, and   
   >> > > > others feel it is well justified.   
   >> > > > There is nothing on this earth that can ease the torment that a child   
   has   
   >> > > > from suffering sexual abuse, and all their lives they live with the   
   >> > > > effects   
   >> > > > of it. Same with other crimes against humanity. How much suffering   
   does   
   >> > > > the   
   >> > > > offender deserve? Especially when a simple death sentence does not   
   restore   
   >> > > > the abused, nor would it lessen the Childs pain throughout their life   
   by   
   >> > > > knowing the offender was paying a lifetime sentence. Something to   
   think   
   >> > > > about.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > You seem to have forgotten about when bad things happen to good   
   >> > > people, or when good things happen to bad people -- a failure of   
   >> > > karma. Now, how many *years* of fiendish torture in the fires of Hell   
   >> > > do you believe are necessary when dealing with child molesters?   
   >> >   
   >> > I leave that in Gods hands and His wisdom. I know and understand the why’s   
   >> > of the first part of your paragraph.   
   >>   
   >> LOL! You bet you should leave it there, since you yourself have no   
   >> answer for it.   
   >   
   >Why should I have an answer for it, it is in Gods hands and for his purposes.   
   >I understand some of those things but there is no way I or anyone on earth   
   >can discuss it with others as they would just keep on with endless questions   
   >for no reason other than to find a point where you can’t explain it and   
   >claim “GOTCHA’ and use that as some excuse to rationalize all proper   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)