[continued from previous message]   
      
   > Are you claiming that you have no agenda?   
      
   Yes.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > *he sometimes refers to a time when he was dead and   
   > > > sometimes refers   
   > > > > > > > > > to a situation where he was teetering between life and   
   death; which   
   > > > > > > > > > is   
   > > > > > > > > > it?   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Both. His OOBE and the realities of being in a spiritual state   
   he   
   > > > > > > > > sometimes   
   > > > > > > > > assumed he was back on earth as he saw things clearly. Had he   
   been   
   > > > > > > > > back   
   > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > his body he would have felt the consciousness that his body   
   was aware   
   > > > > > > > > of.   
   > > > > > > > > Paul, the Apostle, could not tell when he visited heaven   
   whether he   
   > > > > > > > > was   
   > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > the body or out of it. He had been stoned to death at least   
   once, and   
   > > > > > > > > as I   
   > > > > > > > > recalled he was killed something like three different times.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > But these days he says he *was* dead, not that he was at that   
   time   
   > > > > > > > maybe dead, from his perspective.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Not sure as to whom you are speaking of here.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > What is the name of this thread? Is it "I died and was teetering on   
   > > > > > the edge of death for 18 years"? Or is it *I died*... and went to   
   > > > > > heaven for 18 days"   
   > > > >   
   > > > > The latter, of course, but the Apostle Paul was just mentioned and His   
   > > > > trip   
   > > > > to heaven so I could not tell to whom you were referring.   
   > > >   
   > > > If it was the latter, why does Gabe describe his condition being   
   > > > teetering between life and death, rather than just death?   
   > >   
   > > From what I gathered those things happened on and off during various days   
   in   
   > > the midst of the 18 days.   
   > > His book coming out should cover a whole lot more detail, and I plan on   
   > > buying it to see what all was written.   
   >   
   > What do you think about his association with Kenneth Copeland?   
      
   What association?   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > Obviously the yung man said he was dead, with rigor mortise at the   
   fore,   
   > > > > and at the end he was to be or about to be, put into a body bag.   
   > > >   
   > > > What about post-mortem decay, as mentioned by some other poster?   
   > >   
   > > What about it, they did not view the video, you did, you also heard that   
   > > they   
   > > put him on life support systems, which is typically done on the dead in   
   > > order   
   > > to preserve short term viability in order to harvest organs from those that   
   > > are organ donors.   
   >   
   > They had to wait 18 days after he died to harvest his organs? Was he   
   > even an organ donor to begin with?   
      
   I never said that, I just explained that the same process was used to keep   
   him ’alive’ as for them, I gathered that his family was hoping that he   
   would recover naturally as others have. After all they gave him meds to   
   assure that he would be put into a comatose state which helps many to recover   
   from brain injuries.   
   >   
   >   
   > > That is the problem with agendized dismissive arguments, they toss out all   
   > > forms of reality to focus on something that fits their narrative and   
   thereby   
   > > project false conclusions.   
   >   
   > Well, you're definitely not a purveyor of "reality."   
      
   Same thing was said to the Wright brothers. And Issac Newton. And some in   
   regards to the Heavenly Father. And had you given my statement some thought   
   you might see the truth in it.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > and finally   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > *why couldn't it have been his "time" yet, to stay in heaven   
   rather   
   > > > > > > > > > than returning to earth?   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > He said that Jesus wanted him to return and share what he had   
   seen and   
   > > > > > > > > observed., that it was not his “appointed time to die”.   
   This is   
   > > > > > > > > not   
   > > > > > > > > an   
   > > > > > > > > uncommon thing to feel for those that Believe, I know of a few   
   others   
   > > > > > > > > who   
   > > > > > > > > had   
   > > > > > > > > similar experiences, although the ones I know of, were solid   
   believers   
   > > > > > > > > before   
   > > > > > > > > they left and two of them were given a choice. Even though   
   Jesus told   
   > > > > > > > > them   
   > > > > > > > > that there was more for them to do.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Why would an omnipotent being need the assistance of mere humans   
   to   
   > > > > > > > accomplish his goals?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Because he gave the dominion of this earth and all that was on it,   
   to   
   > > > > > > man.   
   > > > > > > Which is why anti god people can exercise their free will thinking.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > So why couldn't some of that dominion be taken back, if it's leading   
   > > > > > to inefficiency in, shall we say, harvesting souls? And the ability   
   > > > > > of anti-god people to exercise free will in thinking was not at issue   
   > > > > > at this point in the conversation.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Free will is an ongoing issue that must be understood as a right. As   
   well   
   > > > > as   
   > > > > the responsibilities that go with it.   
   > > >   
   > > > Those are already understood.   
   > > >   
   > > > > If is not in God to take things back that he has promised to all men.   
   > > > > Promised given by himself with no strings attached stand according to   
   His   
   > > > > will. Covenants that have stipulations is a covenant between two   
   parties.   
   > > > > God is a God of his word.   
   > > >   
   > > > So if God makes a mistake, he's unable to fix it, lest he break his word?   
   > >   
   > > That is assuming that he actually makes mistakes, How can a perfect being   
   > > make a mistake?   
   >   
   > He couldn't, but then your alleged God is not a perfect being. He   
   > would have to be fallible if he created a dominion for man that didn't   
   > work out.   
      
   Actually recreated a domain for men that he gave them dominion over it.   
   God knew before the earth was formed what is future was to be, and while you   
   should read Genesis 3 to see the fall out and its effects it says,...   
      
   Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy   
   seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.   
      
   Notice “her seed” a specific reference to Jesus of the seed of Mary. Not   
   man and Mary but of God and Mary.   
      
   (Messiah to be the seed of the woman). The servants of Christ are members of   
   that body of which Christ is the head, and therefore are included in this   
   seed.   
      
   1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.   
      
   1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth   
   according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:   
      
   1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible   
   things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition   
   from your fathers;   
      
   1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish   
   and without spot:   
      
   ***********************   
      
   1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but   
   was manifest in these last times for you,   
      
   ***********************   
      
   1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and   
   gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   
      
   There is the proof that he knew ahead of time what would happen. Understood   
   what might happen, and could happen and provided a way of escape from the   
   very beginning. And like satan who desired to be God, and be bigger and   
   badder than God, would by their life choices would be made manifest and go to   
   dwell with Satan, their leader/ comrade in arms. Birds of a feather and all   
   that.   
      
   >   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)