[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > > > the Heavenly Father. NOT on the throne of the Heavenly Father.   
   > > >   
   > > > No, the setting of the story in Genesis is pre-Israelite but in   
   > > > reality it was composed in Israel much later than that. And Jesus   
   > > > sitting at the right hand of his Father is a remnant from the early   
   > > > days of Jesus' preachings, when he was considered to be somewhat less   
   > > > of a ruler than his Father was.   
   > >   
   > > Did you bother to read what I said? It sure does not look like it.   
   >   
   > Read it? The whole paragraph is a rebuttal of what you said.   
      
   I stated that it was before the time of the Israelites, so just what were you   
   rebutting?   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and also he doesn't close his eyes when he prays. I   
   > > > > > found that   
   > > > > > > > > > > > to be kind of strange.   
   > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Many others do as well, I say that because of several   
   leaders I know   
   > > > > > > > > > > do   
   > > > > > > > > > > it   
   > > > > > > > > > > both ways in public. There is no formula for prayers.   
   After all, in   
   > > > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > > > old   
   > > > > > > > > > > days when one presented their case to their kings for   
   consideration,   
   > > > > > > > > > > they   
   > > > > > > > > > > did   
   > > > > > > > > > > so with eyes open when they said, I pray thee Lord so and   
   so.   
   > > > > > > > > > > In speaking to God he sees the heart and its intent.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > So do you pray to God with your eyes open? Why or why not?   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Sometimes either way. If I my driving and I see something like   
   an   
   > > > > > > > > accident   
   > > > > > > > > with people attending to whoever was involved I pray for them   
   in a   
   > > > > > > > > variety   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > ways. Obviously with my eyes open. Sometimes I do the same   
   when I am   
   > > > > > > > > reading,   
   > > > > > > > > or writing, or see and or hear news of bad things happening,   
   same when   
   > > > > > > > > good   
   > > > > > > > > things are happening to give praise. At home in private,   
   normally I   
   > > > > > > > > close   
   > > > > > > > > my   
   > > > > > > > > eyes Just because...and it helps keep one focused.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Wow. Do you even bow when you pray, to at least show respect for   
   your   
   > > > > > > > god?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > And home I bend the knee to him. And on occasion on my face,   
   depending.   
   > > > > > > He saved me both in this life as well as the next. He spared my   
   life   
   > > > > > > several   
   > > > > > > times, and I cannot thank him enough for that.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > But if he hadn't saved your life, you would be in heaven right now,   
   > > > > > wouldn't you? Is that situation good or bad? And why would God spare   
   > > > > > your life and not others?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Perhaps, I don’t really know for sure, because at those times my life   
   > > > > was   
   > > > > not right before God. He saved me I am sure because of a couple things,   
   > > > > one   
   > > > > he wanted me to be spiritually saved, the other because of the prayers   
   of   
   > > > > my   
   > > > > concerned mother. I know that the fear of death was not with me. Only   
   > > > > that I   
   > > > > knew at that time is was a very real possibility. I cannot fully   
   > > > > understand   
   > > > > it, neither then or afterwards, or even now. I am however, thankful to   
   Him   
   > > > > for it.   
   > > >   
   > > > Why couldn't you go to heaven and get spiritually saved there?   
   > > > Wouldn't that be fun?   
   > >   
   > > Those that die and are not of God, go to hell.Sin is not allowed in heaven,   
   > > I suppose you could have a vision of heaven, so as to see what truth and   
   life   
   > > is like and the same thing with hell.   
   >   
   > So you just didn't want to go to heaven at that point in your life?   
      
   I have never been to heaven via a vision, or tele-transportation or physical   
   death.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cared about your life after death, then you   
   should check   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > your   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > options.   
   > > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about it strictly because I don't believe   
   it. It's not   
   > > > > > > > > > > > as if I saw, it believed it, and decided not to "check   
   my options."   
   > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Yet you cannot deny that you never heard of it. So when   
   you see the   
   > > > > > > > > > > reality   
   > > > > > > > > > > of it that you won’t be able to say ‘I was never   
   warned’.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > There is insufficient evidence to constitute being "warned."   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Not at all, because someone ignores it and acts all   
   indifferent to a   
   > > > > > > > > warning   
   > > > > > > > > because they did not feel any imminent threat or danger does   
   not   
   > > > > > > > > dismiss   
   > > > > > > > > or   
   > > > > > > > > diminish the warning. Noah warned men of the impending flood   
   for 120   
   > > > > > > > > years   
   > > > > > > > > as he and his family built the ark. All he got was jeers,   
   mocking,   
   > > > > > > > > etc.   
   > > > > > > > > but   
   > > > > > > > > when   
   > > > > > > > > he got into the ark and sealed the doors and then there came   
   rain and   
   > > > > > > > > it   
   > > > > > > > > did   
   > > > > > > > > not stop. You can bet people changed their minds.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > If God sets things up so that they look like they can be mocked,   
   and   
   > > > > > > > then those things are mocked, whose fault is that?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > It depends on your view point, mine is different. In any event,   
   when the   
   > > > > > > rains started pouring down, and the water started rising, the   
   mocking   
   > > > > > > stopped. Why was that?   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > The point is, there should've been no mocking to begin with, if God   
   > > > > > were sensible.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Why is that? Is it not part of human nature that it born into sin to   
   mock   
   > > > > God and those who follow him?   
   > > >   
   > > > It's human nature to mock the laughing stocks, not those who are worth   
   > > > dealing with.   
   > >   
   > > Human nature is not Godly. IOW not of God.   
   >   
   > Obviously, it doesn't have to be of God, to be interested in laughing   
   > at the laughable.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? Because the default is Hell and then the Lake of   
   Fire.   
   > > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > The idea of Hell is pure barbarism.   
   > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > That too is the thought of those against the death penalty   
   for rape   
   > > > > > > > > > > and   
   > > > > > > > > > > murder. And the same arguments are made against that. In   
   spite of   
   > > > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > > > fact   
   > > > > > > > > > > that these people are often repeat offenders. Now that   
   same thinking   
   > > > > > > > > > > is   
   > > > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > > > place in many cities for any crime resulting in Prison   
   time.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > Torture has no place in a civilized society, regardless of   
   the crime,   
   > > > > > > > > > so it's far less civilized if it goes on for *years* -- or   
   worst of   
   > > > > > > > > > all, *forever.*   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Some people get their kicks from being tortured. Even pay for   
   it.   
   > > > > > > > > There are many forms of torment. And there are varying degrees   
   of   
   > > > > > > > > torment   
   > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > the lake of Fire based on the actions and intents of those   
   that are   
   > > > > > > > > sent   
   > > > > > > > > there. It was never meant for man. It was designed for Lucifer   
   and his   
   > > > > > > > > angels. All who go there will not why, and will know why they   
   are   
   > > > > > > > > deserving   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)