[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> > that moment. Thank you Lord!   
   >>   
   >> You didn't have time to formulate a request, but you did know you were   
   >> in trouble. So you subconsciously developed a solution even before   
   >> your conscious mind was interested in it. And no one showed you   
   >> anything -- unless, of course, you're claiming you're unfamiliar with   
   >> the Bible.   
   >   
   >He stood there by my side, and spoke to me regarding the solution. After it   
   >happened. Immediately, and answered the unasked question. I heard him, asked   
   >him then what to do next, etc. I have written this all out before. And to a   
   >person in your NG.   
      
   You mean you imagined that he was by your side, and attributed your   
   own problem-solving skills to Jesus -- and an unasked question was   
   just something in your subconscious, the same level of consciousness   
   which you used to solve the problem in step-by-step fashion.  No Jesus   
   was involved.   
      
   >> > > > > > It was a point that the young man made about Jesus   
   >> > > > > > the prayers of man that he blessed and then handed it to the   
   Heavenly   
   >> > > > > > Father   
   >> > > > > > to bless, and return the answers for them. It is also backed up in   
   >> > > > > > scripture   
   >> > > > > > From the first chapter of Genesis on.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > No, the plural of God in the book of Genesis is just a remnant of   
   >> > > > > early Israelite polytheism. It has nothing to do with God the   
   Father.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > It was mentioned before there were any Israelites. The young man   
   mentioned   
   >> > > > the realities of that without making a big point about it, for which   
   I’d   
   >> > > > bet many religious types will flack him for it, as well as calling   
   him a   
   >> > > > total fraud because it does not match up with their supposed   
   doctrines of   
   >> > > > men. Jesus when he returned to the Father was seated at the right   
   hand of   
   >> > > > the Heavenly Father. NOT on the throne of the Heavenly Father.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > No, the setting of the story in Genesis is pre-Israelite but in   
   >> > > reality it was composed in Israel much later than that. And Jesus   
   >> > > sitting at the right hand of his Father is a remnant from the early   
   >> > > days of Jesus' preachings, when he was considered to be somewhat less   
   >> > > of a ruler than his Father was.   
   >> >   
   >> > Did you bother to read what I said? It sure does not look like it.   
   >>   
   >> Read it? The whole paragraph is a rebuttal of what you said.   
   >   
   >I stated that it was before the time of the Israelites, so just what were you   
   >rebutting?   
      
   Just that.  I said it was composed after Israel became a nation, not   
   before.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and also he doesn't close his eyes when he prays. I   
   >> > > > > found that   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > to be kind of strange.   
   >> > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > Many others do as well, I say that because of several   
   leaders I know   
   >> > > > > > > > > > do   
   >> > > > > > > > > > it   
   >> > > > > > > > > > both ways in public. There is no formula for prayers.   
   After all, in   
   >> > > > > > > > > > the   
   >> > > > > > > > > > old   
   >> > > > > > > > > > days when one presented their case to their kings for   
   consideration,   
   >> > > > > > > > > > they   
   >> > > > > > > > > > did   
   >> > > > > > > > > > so with eyes open when they said, I pray thee Lord so and   
   so.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > In speaking to God he sees the heart and its intent.   
   >> > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > So do you pray to God with your eyes open? Why or why not?   
   >> > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > Sometimes either way. If I my driving and I see something   
   like an   
   >> > > > > > > > accident   
   >> > > > > > > > with people attending to whoever was involved I pray for them   
   in a   
   >> > > > > > > > variety   
   >> > > > > > > > of   
   >> > > > > > > > ways. Obviously with my eyes open. Sometimes I do the same   
   when I am   
   >> > > > > > > > reading,   
   >> > > > > > > > or writing, or see and or hear news of bad things happening,   
   same when   
   >> > > > > > > > good   
   >> > > > > > > > things are happening to give praise. At home in private,   
   normally I   
   >> > > > > > > > close   
   >> > > > > > > > my   
   >> > > > > > > > eyes Just because...and it helps keep one focused.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > Wow. Do you even bow when you pray, to at least show respect   
   for your   
   >> > > > > > > god?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > And home I bend the knee to him. And on occasion on my face,   
   depending.   
   >> > > > > > He saved me both in this life as well as the next. He spared my   
   life   
   >> > > > > > several   
   >> > > > > > times, and I cannot thank him enough for that.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > But if he hadn't saved your life, you would be in heaven right now,   
   >> > > > > wouldn't you? Is that situation good or bad? And why would God spare   
   >> > > > > your life and not others?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Perhaps, I don’t really know for sure, because at those times my life   
   >> > > > was   
   >> > > > not right before God. He saved me I am sure because of a couple   
   things,   
   >> > > > one   
   >> > > > he wanted me to be spiritually saved, the other because of the   
   prayers of   
   >> > > > my   
   >> > > > concerned mother. I know that the fear of death was not with me. Only   
   >> > > > that I   
   >> > > > knew at that time is was a very real possibility. I cannot fully   
   >> > > > understand   
   >> > > > it, neither then or afterwards, or even now. I am however, thankful   
   to Him   
   >> > > > for it.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Why couldn't you go to heaven and get spiritually saved there?   
   >> > > Wouldn't that be fun?   
   >> >   
   >> > Those that die and are not of God, go to hell.Sin is not allowed in   
   heaven,   
   >> > I suppose you could have a vision of heaven, so as to see what truth and   
   life   
   >> > is like and the same thing with hell.   
   >>   
   >> So you just didn't want to go to heaven at that point in your life?   
   >   
   >I have never been to heaven via a vision, or tele-transportation or physical   
   >death.   
      
   Is that why you didn't want to go to heaven at that point in your   
   life?   
      
      
      
   >> > > And don't forget the fire of Hell itself. Real flames, right? I   
   >> > > notice you didn't mention that in your description of Hell. And by the   
   >> > > way, in the Bible, Satan is punished in Hell. He doesn't rule over   
   >> > > like Sunday School theology would have us believe.   
   >> >   
   >> > Satan is the god of this world, At the bottom of the pit there is fire,   
   but   
   >> > the lake of Fire and brimstone is elsewhere. Hell is a holding pen, it is   
   >> > not the final resting place of the damned.   
   >>   
   >> So where is Hell located, anyway? In the center of the earth?   
   >   
   >A pit, with sides deep in the earth   
      
   Where on earth would that be?  Can we set up sight-seeing trips to   
   visit it?   
      
   >> > > > > > What God would give a man a billion afternoons of peace and pure   
   >> > > > > > delights?   
   >> > > > > > And what God would want a billion Karen’s there to oppose him and   
   the   
   >> > > > > > people that entered heaven?   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Non sequitur.   
   >> > > > Can’t relate. Eh?   
   >> > >   
   >> > > I can relate to it, all right. It's just that it has nothing to do   
   >> > > with what we were taking about.   
   >> >   
   >> > You were the one who brought that up. Look up a few paragraphs.   
   >>   
   >> I talked about afternoons of savage torture, not afternoons of peace   
   >> and delights. That second part was added in by you, for no apparent   
   >> reason.   
   >   
   >Then why did you use the term ’billion afternoons’?   
      
   It was part of my comparison to American Indians torturing captives to   
   death in the space of an afternoon.  Then you  introduced other kinds   
   of afternoons, showing that you weren't following the discussion.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)