[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> > > > > > In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured for up   
   to 10   
   >> > > > > > days.   
   >> > > > > > Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the RCC   
   tortured   
   >> > > > > > for   
   >> > > > > > days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it was   
   pure   
   >> > > > > > evil.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Hell supposedly lasts forever, not 10 days. And when was Samson,   
   >> > > > > specifically, tortured for much longer? In that folk tale, don't   
   they   
   >> > > > > just put out his eyes?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Yes. But that was not hell I was speaking of. It is torture that you   
   >> > > > mentioned, that was somehow limited in time and scope. Or did you   
   forget   
   >> > > > your   
   >> > > > premise just made above?   
   >> > >   
   >> > > What does Samson have to do with what we're discussing?   
   >> >   
   >> > He was an example of someone who was tortured.   
   >>   
   >> How do you know Samson didn't go to heaven?   
   >   
   >Because the righteous dead went to paradise. Before Christ rose from the   
   >dead.   
   >It is in the bible. Not written in those exact words but written by examples,   
   >at the time of Christ.   
      
   How do you know Samson wasn't righteous?  Were you aware that, in that   
   folk tale, Samson prays to God to give him his strength back just long   
   enough to kill many Philistines (the traditional enemies of the   
   Israelites who had captured him)?   
      
   >> > > > > > > > When bad things happen to bad people, it is called karma by   
   many, and   
   >> > > > > > > > others feel it is well justified.   
   >> > > > > > > > There is nothing on this earth that can ease the torment that   
   a child   
   >> > > > > > > > has   
   >> > > > > > > > from suffering sexual abuse, and all their lives they live   
   with the   
   >> > > > > > > > effects   
   >> > > > > > > > of it. Same with other crimes against humanity. How much   
   suffering   
   >> > > > > > > > does   
   >> > > > > > > > the   
   >> > > > > > > > offender deserve? Especially when a simple death sentence   
   does not   
   >> > > > > > > > restore   
   >> > > > > > > > the abused, nor would it lessen the Childs pain throughout   
   their life   
   >> > > > > > > > by   
   >> > > > > > > > knowing the offender was paying a lifetime sentence.   
   Something to   
   >> > > > > > > > think   
   >> > > > > > > > about.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > You seem to have forgotten about when bad things happen to good   
   >> > > > > > > people, or when good things happen to bad people -- a failure of   
   >> > > > > > > karma. Now, how many *years* of fiendish torture in the fires   
   of Hell   
   >> > > > > > > do you believe are necessary when dealing with child molesters?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > I leave that in Gods hands and His wisdom. I know and understand   
   the   
   >> > > > > > why’s   
   >> > > > > > of the first part of your paragraph.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > LOL! You bet you should leave it there, since you yourself have no   
   >> > > > > answer for it.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Why should I have an answer for it, it is in Gods hands and for his   
   >> > > > purposes.   
   >> > > > I understand some of those things but there is no way I or anyone on   
   earth   
   >> > > > can discuss it with others as they would just keep on with endless   
   >> > > > questions   
   >> > > > for no reason other than to find a point where you can’t explain it   
   and   
   >> > > > claim “GOTCHA’ and use that as some excuse to rationalize all proper   
   >> > > > thing before it, away, as it if was unjustified.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > So God has no answer for it either, in your view.   
   >> >   
   >> > And just how do you jump to that conclusion? That is a purposely offensive   
   >> > statement.   
   >>   
   >> If it's in God's hands, and he still hasn't explained why he would be   
   >> so cruel as to create a place like Helll, that must be because he has   
   >> no answer. What other reason could that be?   
   >   
   >Cruelty is in the eyes of the beholder. It is a poor excuse in an even poorer   
   >reason to attempt to justify why you do not belong there. You have a lesser   
   >example of that from men who are sent to prison for long terms especially to   
   >keep from being on a chain gang, or dwelling in tents in the hot desert   
   >lands.   
      
   No, cruelty is not in the eye of the beholder.  It's real and should   
   be recognized easily by anyone with barest moral compass.   
      
   >> > > > God has all the answers, and he can answer you to your needs in such   
   a way   
   >> > > > as you can be satisfied..   
   >> > >   
   >> > > But he's hiding them for some reason, right?   
   >> >   
   >> > You have not because you ask not.   
   >>   
   >> Others have asked, and they haven't pulled God out of his shell, so to   
   >> speak.   
   >   
   >Were they believers and in His family? If they were did they ask amiss?   
   >IF they were non believers, or doubters, then they were not asking in faith   
   >believing.   
      
   Yes, many people pray for good things but don't get them primarily   
   because God doesn't exist, not because they didn't "have enough   
   faith".   
      
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > If Miracles still occur there must be a reason behind   
   it.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > You're getting ahead of yourself there.   
   >> > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > I disagree, because miracles have been happening for 2K   
   years.   
   >> > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > Because your YouTube videos told you so?   
   >> > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > That is a ridiculous slam.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > What sources do you use besides YouTube, that lead you to   
   believe   
   >> > > > > > > miracles have been happening for 2K years (should be 6K, but,   
   then   
   >> > > > > > > those are your beliefs, not mine)?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Well the miracles during the times of Israel happened and were   
   known of   
   >> > > > > > WW.   
   >> > > > > > They were somewhat limited because of the Law Covenant, the NT is   
   a new,   
   >> > > > > > different, and better covenant.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > So the first covenant was a mistake by God? And there were no   
   miracles   
   >> > > > > in ancient Israel known "world wide".   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > I thought you said you knew the Bible? It was not the plan that God   
   >> > > > desired   
   >> > > > for them, and the people were very fearful of God and told Moses, “You   
   >> > > > handle it”. And so it was a negotiated covenant.   
   >> > > > As to miracles known world wide, at that point in time the known   
   world was   
   >> > > > small. And yes, those around them knew of them. Some coming to seek   
   >> > > > healings,   
   >> > > > other to join in with them, but many haters.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Without relying on the myths and legends of the Bible, tell us about   
   >> > > these people around Israel that knew of their supposed miracles.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:1 Now Naaman, captain of the host of the king of Syria, was a great   
   >> > man   
   >> > with his master, and honourable, because by him the LORD had given   
   >> > deliverance unto Syria: he was also a mighty man in valour, but he was a   
   >> > leper.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:2 And the Syrians had gone out by companies, and had brought away   
   >> > captive out of the land of Israel a little maid; and she waited on   
   Naaman's   
   >> > wife.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:3 And she said unto her mistress, Would God my lordwere with the   
   >> > prophet that is in Samaria! for he would recover him of his leprosy.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:4 And one went in, and told his lord, saying, Thus and thus said the   
   >> > maid thatis of the land of Israel.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:5 And the king of Syria said, Go to, go, and I will send a letter   
   unto   
   >> > the king of Israel. And he departed, and took with him ten talents of   
   >> > silver,   
   >> > and six thousand pieces of gold, and ten changes of raiment.   
   >> >   
   >> > 2Ki 5:6 And he brought the letter to the king of Israel, saying, Now when   
      
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)