[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > > > > > Yes. But that was not hell I was speaking of. It is torture that   
   you   
   > > > > > > mentioned, that was somehow limited in time and scope. Or did you   
   forget   
   > > > > > > your   
   > > > > > > premise just made above?   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > What does Samson have to do with what we're discussing?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > He was an example of someone who was tortured.   
   > > >   
   > > > How do you know Samson didn't go to heaven?   
   > >   
   > > Because the righteous dead went to paradise. Before Christ rose from the   
   > > dead.   
   > > It is in the bible. Not written in those exact words but written by   
   > > examples,   
   > > at the time of Christ.   
   >   
   > How do you know Samson wasn't righteous? Were you aware that, in that   
   > folk tale, Samson prays to God to give him his strength back just long   
   > enough to kill many Philistines (the traditional enemies of the   
   > Israelites who had captured him)?   
      
   God answered his prayer, and after that he went to paradise;   
      
   Where is your proof from the history books of that civilizations that prove   
   it is false?   
   >   
   > >   
   > > Cruelty is in the eyes of the beholder. It is a poor excuse in an even   
   > > poorer   
   > > reason to attempt to justify why you do not belong there. You have a lesser   
   > > example of that from men who are sent to prison for long terms especially   
   to   
   > > keep from being on a chain gang, or dwelling in tents in the hot desert   
   > > lands.   
   >   
   > No, cruelty is not in the eye of the beholder. It's real and should   
   > be recognized easily by anyone with barest moral compass.   
      
   You don’t know much about RL do you. Case in point the Hamas slaughter on   
   10/7, they were rejoicing and proud of what they did, even calling their   
   parents to brag on it. Getting cheers when they returned with the hostages   
   and footage of their slaughter and torturing. And they all felt morally   
   justified in doing that they did. They also were supported by some here in   
   the USA and around the world. Look at the slaughter currently going on in   
   Nigeria by similar people.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > God has all the answers, and he can answer you to your needs in   
   such a   
   > > > > > > way as you can be satisfied..   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > But he's hiding them for some reason, right?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > You have not because you ask not.   
   > > >   
   > > > Others have asked, and they haven't pulled God out of his shell, so to   
   > > > speak.   
   > >   
   > > Were they believers and in His family? If they were did they ask amiss?   
   > > IF they were non believers, or doubters, then they were not asking in faith   
   > > believing.   
   >   
   > Yes, many people pray for good things but don't get them primarily   
   > because God doesn't exist, not because they didn't "have enough   
   > faith".   
      
   If they are not believers then? Why does the bible speak about not hearing   
   the prayers of the wicked?   
   >   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Without relying on the myths and legends of the Bible, tell us about   
   > > > > > these people around Israel that knew of their supposed miracles.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:1 Now Naaman, captain of the host of the king of Syria, was a   
   great   
   > > > > man   
   > > > > with his master, and honourable, because by him the LORD had given   
   > > > > deliverance unto Syria: he was also a mighty man in valour, but he was   
   a   
   > > > > leper.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:2 And the Syrians had gone out by companies, and had brought away   
   > > > > captive out of the land of Israel a little maid; and she waited on   
   > > > > Naaman's   
   > > > > wife.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:3 And she said unto her mistress, Would God my lordwere with the   
   > > > > prophet that is in Samaria! for he would recover him of his leprosy.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:4 And one went in, and told his lord, saying, Thus and thus said   
   the   
   > > > > maid thatis of the land of Israel.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:5 And the king of Syria said, Go to, go, and I will send a letter   
   > > > > unto   
   > > > > the king of Israel. And he departed, and took with him ten talents of   
   > > > > silver,   
   > > > > and six thousand pieces of gold, and ten changes of raiment.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 2Ki 5:6 And he brought the letter to the king of Israel, saying, Now   
   when   
   > > > > this letter is come unto thee, behold, I have therewith sent Naaman my   
   > > > > servant to thee, that thou mayest recover him of his leprosy.   
   > > >   
   > > > Didn't you read what I said? Remember, *without relying on the myths   
   > > > and legends of the Bible.*   
   > >   
   > > There are no myths there no legends either.   
   > > In RL there are legends based on facts as well as embellished thinking.   
   >   
   > Right. That's where the stories came from, not because other nations   
   > in ancient times had heard about miracles in Israel.   
      
   Nope. And you have nothing that verifies that train of thought.   
   >   
   > > > >   
   > > > > 3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and   
   be   
   > > > > in health, even as thy soul prospereth.   
   > > >   
   > > > Part of the problem is that you are apparently a subscriber to the   
   > > > prosperity gospel claims yourself. Remember that the love of money   
   > > > is the root of all evil, though (see 1 Timothy 6:10)   
   > >   
   > > And that is the reason why people fall prey to false teachers, who are also   
   > > dwelling under the love of money. Give for the sole purpose of getting.   
   That   
   > > is not Godly. Nor is it of God. Money has become a god to those people. Not   
   > > that you would understand.   
   >   
   > Do you think televangelists suffer from those problems?   
      
   Some from their beginnings, some others because they fell away by temptations   
   and other things.   
   That happened to Jimmy Swaggart, and he fell hard, and paid the price for it.   
   Yet he truly repented. And died in faith believing. He was even able to lead   
   his cousin to the Lord near the end of life, while they both had life. Jerry   
   Lee Lewis who wanted nothing to do with God for most all of his life.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > God blesses his own.   
   > > I could tell you stories about God blessing me, in RL, and how I learned   
   > > about such things. But it would be of no help to you as you are not of a   
   > > mind to understand and learn.   
   >   
   > True, I don't regard you as my teacher. It's probably best if you   
   > keep the stories to yourself, since I would guess that they're not   
   > very convincing anyway.   
      
   I know I am not your teacher, and I surely would not want to be known as   
   that. It is for sure that no one would consider me to be one for you anyhow.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > Oral passed away long ago.   
   > > >   
   > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts   
   > > >   
   > > > "Even though Roberts was often associated with the prosperity gospel   
   > > > and the faith movement because of his close doctrinal and personal   
   > > > ties with Word-Faith teachers, his abundant life teachings did not   
   > > > fully identify him with that movement.[37]"   
   > >   
   > > Yet you place him fully there. I am a bit surprised that there was a   
   modicum   
   > > of truth there, being that it was WIKI.   
   >   
   > I didn't say he fully was, only that he was into it, at whatever   
   > level.   
      
   There is a lot of misunderstanding about what a word of Faith teacher is, and   
   what it isn’t and I know some very bitter ‘christians’ who are into   
   hatred of things they know not of worse that the typical atheist.   
      
   But anyone who is into false prosperity Gospel will pay the price. When a   
   persons focus is on money either the gain of it or the rejection of it, their   
   minds and hearts are not towards the Almighty God. Money controls their life,   
   either way.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > But the best is soon to come and is already on its way.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Why isn't it here now?   
   > > > > > >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)