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   >> > > > > I can relate to it, all right. It's just that it has nothing to do   
   >> > > > > with what we were taking about.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > You were the one who brought that up. Look up a few paragraphs.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > I talked about afternoons of savage torture, not afternoons of peace   
   >> > > and delights. That second part was added in by you, for no apparent   
   >> > > reason.   
   >> >   
   >> > Then why did you use the term ’billion afternoons’?   
   >>   
   >> It was part of my comparison to American Indians torturing captives to   
   >> death in the space of an afternoon. Then you introduced other kinds   
   >> of afternoons, showing that you weren't following the discussion.   
   >   
   >So you WERE the one who brought up billions of afternoons, eh?   
   >I understood you just fine. Which is why I should you the fallacy of your   
   >arguments and the outcomes of RL experiences.   
      
   You showed me nothing of the sort.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured for   
   up to 10   
   >> > > > > > > > days.   
   >> > > > > > > > Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the RCC   
   tortured   
   >> > > > > > > > for   
   >> > > > > > > > days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it   
   was pure   
   >> > > > > > > > evil.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > Hell supposedly lasts forever, not 10 days. And when was Samson,   
   >> > > > > > > specifically, tortured for much longer? In that folk tale,   
   don't they   
   >> > > > > > > just put out his eyes?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Yes. But that was not hell I was speaking of. It is torture that   
   you   
   >> > > > > > mentioned, that was somehow limited in time and scope. Or did you   
   forget   
   >> > > > > > your   
   >> > > > > > premise just made above?   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > What does Samson have to do with what we're discussing?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > He was an example of someone who was tortured.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > How do you know Samson didn't go to heaven?   
   >> >   
   >> > Because the righteous dead went to paradise. Before Christ rose from the   
   >> > dead.   
   >> > It is in the bible. Not written in those exact words but written by   
   >> > examples,   
   >> > at the time of Christ.   
   >>   
   >> How do you know Samson wasn't righteous? Were you aware that, in that   
   >> folk tale, Samson prays to God to give him his strength back just long   
   >> enough to kill many Philistines (the traditional enemies of the   
   >> Israelites who had captured him)?   
   >   
   >God answered his prayer, and after that he went to paradise;   
      
   You have yet to explain why you think Samson was being tortured.   
      
   >Where is your proof from the history books of that civilizations that prove   
   >it is false?   
      
   The story of Samson is self-evidently false (i.e., a fairy tale)   
   because, newsflash, people don't become superhuman in strength because   
   of their hair style.   
      
   >> > Cruelty is in the eyes of the beholder. It is a poor excuse in an even   
   >> > poorer   
   >> > reason to attempt to justify why you do not belong there. You have a   
   lesser   
   >> > example of that from men who are sent to prison for long terms especially   
   to   
   >> > keep from being on a chain gang, or dwelling in tents in the hot desert   
   >> > lands.   
   >>   
   >> No, cruelty is not in the eye of the beholder. It's real and should   
   >> be recognized easily by anyone with barest moral compass.   
   >   
   >You don’t know much about RL do you. Case in point the Hamas slaughter on   
   >10/7, they were rejoicing and proud of what they did, even calling their   
   >parents to brag on it. Getting cheers when they returned with the hostages   
   >and footage of their slaughter and torturing. And they all felt morally   
   >justified in doing that they did. They also were supported by some here in   
   >the USA and around the world. Look at the slaughter currently going on in   
   >Nigeria by similar people.   
      
   Some people rejoice in cruelty, but that doesn't make it any less   
   cruel.   
      
   >> > > > > > God has all the answers, and he can answer you to your needs in   
   such a   
   >> > > > > > way as you can be satisfied..   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > But he's hiding them for some reason, right?   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > You have not because you ask not.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Others have asked, and they haven't pulled God out of his shell, so to   
   >> > > speak.   
   >> >   
   >> > Were they believers and in His family? If they were did they ask amiss?   
   >> > IF they were non believers, or doubters, then they were not asking in   
   faith   
   >> > believing.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, many people pray for good things but don't get them primarily   
   >> because God doesn't exist, not because they didn't "have enough   
   >> faith".   
   >   
   >If they are not believers then? Why does the bible speak about not hearing   
   >the prayers of the wicked?   
      
   No, the prayers are not heard because, like I say, God does not exist,   
   not because people are "too wicked" to be heard by God.   
      
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Without relying on the myths and legends of the Bible, tell us about   
   >> > > > > these people around Israel that knew of their supposed miracles.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:1 Now Naaman, captain of the host of the king of Syria, was a   
   great   
   >> > > > man   
   >> > > > with his master, and honourable, because by him the LORD had given   
   >> > > > deliverance unto Syria: he was also a mighty man in valour, but he   
   was a   
   >> > > > leper.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:2 And the Syrians had gone out by companies, and had brought   
   away   
   >> > > > captive out of the land of Israel a little maid; and she waited on   
   >> > > > Naaman's   
   >> > > > wife.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:3 And she said unto her mistress, Would God my lordwere with the   
   >> > > > prophet that is in Samaria! for he would recover him of his leprosy.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:4 And one went in, and told his lord, saying, Thus and thus   
   said the   
   >> > > > maid thatis of the land of Israel.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:5 And the king of Syria said, Go to, go, and I will send a   
   letter   
   >> > > > unto   
   >> > > > the king of Israel. And he departed, and took with him ten talents of   
   >> > > > silver,   
   >> > > > and six thousand pieces of gold, and ten changes of raiment.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > 2Ki 5:6 And he brought the letter to the king of Israel, saying, Now   
   when   
   >> > > > this letter is come unto thee, behold, I have therewith sent Naaman my   
   >> > > > servant to thee, that thou mayest recover him of his leprosy.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Didn't you read what I said? Remember, *without relying on the myths   
   >> > > and legends of the Bible.*   
   >> >   
   >> > There are no myths there no legends either.   
   >> > In RL there are legends based on facts as well as embellished thinking.   
   >>   
   >> Right. That's where the stories came from, not because other nations   
   >> in ancient times had heard about miracles in Israel.   
   >   
   >Nope. And you have nothing that verifies that train of thought.   
      
   I see you're having trouble with a train of thought with this.  The   
   point was no miracles occurred in ancient Israel, since none of the   
   other nations of time mention it.   
      
   >> > > > 3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and   
   be   
   >> > > > in health, even as thy soul prospereth.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Part of the problem is that you are apparently a subscriber to the   
   >> > > prosperity gospel claims yourself. Remember that the love of money   
   >> > > is the root of all evil, though (see 1 Timothy 6:10)   
   >> >   
   >> > And that is the reason why people fall prey to false teachers, who are   
   also   
   >> > dwelling under the love of money. Give for the sole purpose of getting.   
   That   
   >> > is not Godly. Nor is it of God. Money has become a god to those people.   
   Not   
   >> > that you would understand.   
   >>   
   >> Do you think televangelists suffer from those problems?   
   >   
      
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)