XPost: alt.atheism   
   From: .robert@mu.way   
      
   On Oct 31, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   (Message-ID:):   
      
   > On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 19:48:16 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   >   
   > > On Oct 30, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > (Message-ID:):   
   > >   
   > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 13:01:50 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   > > >   
   > > > > On Oct 29, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > (Message-ID:<45h3gk5dovtqb2n2hf53t46se5evcg7hne@4ax.com>):   
   > > > >   
   > > > > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 19:18:07 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > > On Oct 27, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > > > (Message-ID:):   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 15:51:31 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>    
   wrote:   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Of course I read it. Didn't you read my reply? Remember I said the   
   > > > > > feeling of peace you had was just a placebo.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > God does not hand out placebo’s   
   > > >   
   > > > I wasn't suggesting that he does. I was suggesting that there is no   
   > > > God, and what happened to you was the result of a placebo and not   
   > > > God.   
   > >   
   > > At the best here, you used the word inappropriately. One has to be given a   
   > > placebo, and then one takes it unknowingly.   
   >   
   > No, for the placebo effect to occur, you just have to believe what   
   > you're doing is effective; that expectation of efficacy can of its own   
   > then sometimes lead to improvement.   
      
   You did not refer to an effect.   
   >   
   >   
   > > So who gave it?   
   >   
   > LOL! You did. The "sugar pill" here was prayer, and your belief in   
   > the power of prayer is what led to the feelings of peace that you   
   > report. It's all reducible to brain chemistry.   
      
   You have no proof of that, while I have plenty of personal proof through   
   experience.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Even here on earth. The Holy Spirit indwells the   
   heart/spirit of   
   > > > > > > > > > > every   
   > > > > > > > > > > spirit   
   > > > > > > > > > > filled believer, and interoperates with each person at the   
   same   
   > > > > > > > > > > time.   
   > > > > > > > > > > He   
   > > > > > > > > > > is   
   > > > > > > > > > > just like Jesus same attributes, same power, same   
   knowledge, same   
   > > > > > > > > > > mentorship   
   > > > > > > > > > > as did Jesus when he walked on earth as a man. That is   
   what he meant   
   > > > > > > > > > > when   
   > > > > > > > > > > he   
   > > > > > > > > > > said “I will send to you Another Comforter"   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > Why couldn't this extra comforter be provided earlier?   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Because of the Law Covenant, and also as well as Christ had   
   not come   
   > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > earth   
   > > > > > > > > to redeem us from the Law Covenant and set us all free from   
   it. He had   
   > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > return to heaven in order that this same spirit that was in   
   him could   
   > > > > > > > > be   
   > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > all of the believers.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > God needed to rescue us from something he had created, i.e., the   
   "Law   
   > > > > > > > of the Covenant" which he created??   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > You said you read the Bible, why is it that you do not know it was   
   > > > > > > negotiated   
   > > > > > > and was a covenant between God and the Israelites, and exclusive   
   of the   
   > > > > > > Gentiles unless they became Israilites.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > So you're saying God devised a new covenant because the Israelites   
   > > > > > couldn't keep the old covenant.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > No   
   > > >   
   > > > The first covenant failed, and it wasn't God's fault, and it wasn't   
   > > > the Israelite's fault, according to what you just said there. So   
   > > > whose fault was it?   
   > >   
   > > If you had of read the Old Testament and in regards to the giving of the   
   law   
   > > covenant and the peoples reaction to God, then studied the comments in the   
   > > NT   
   > > with regard to the Old covenant as well as the purposes of Christ on earth   
   > > you might have gleaned a wee bit of insight into the reasons why the Law   
   > > Covenant was given in the first place and why there was a newer and better   
   > > covenant. A covenant not of Law.   
   >   
   > Saying "you had to have read" the Bible is not an answer to my   
   > question of whose fault was it that the old covenant failed.   
      
   You claim to now more of the bible than the average christian. I am average.   
   So pony up.   
      
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > Why wouldn't God have anticipated this and tried the new covenant to   
   > > > > > begin with?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > You said you read the bible and know it better than most christians yet   
   > > > > you ask a question like that?   
   > > >   
   > > > What's wrong with the question?   
   > >   
   > > The question brings to mind the fact that you established yourself and   
   > > knowing the Bible better than most, yet you ask a question that you should   
   > > have known if you were as capable as you declare yourself to be.   
   >   
   > Nor is saying "you should know" an answer to my question either.   
      
   Very true, but you like to be lazy. OR, you really do not know.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient   
   for you   
   > > > > > > > > that I go   
   > > > > > > > > away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto   
   you; but   
   > > > > > > > > if I depart, I will send him unto you.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > What's the difference between needing a comforter after Jesus   
   left,   
   > > > > > > > and needing a comforter *before Jesus allegedly* came to earth to   
   > > > > > > > begin with?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Jesus was the comforter while he was active in his ministry. He   
   promised   
   > > > > > > that we filled with the Holy Spirit could do greater things that he   
   > > > > > > did. Satan   
   > > > > > > has done his best to dumb down the churches.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > That doesn't explain why a comforter couldn't be sent to humanity   
   > > > > > before Jesus' supposed incarnation.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Jesus was not incarnated.   
   > > >   
   > > > From   
   > > >   
   > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_(Christianity)   
   > > >   
   > > > "In Christian theology, the incarnation is the belief that the   
   > > > pre-existent divine person of Jesus Christ, God the Son, the second   
   > > > person of the Trinity, and the Logos (Koine Greek for 'word'), was   
   > > > "made flesh"[1] by being conceived through the power of the Holy   
   > > > Spirit in the womb of a woman, the Virgin Mary,[2] who is also known   
   > > > as the Theotokos (Greek for "God-bearer" or "Mother of God"). The   
   > > > doctrine of the incarnation then entails that Jesus was at the same   
   > > > time both fully God and fully human.[3]"   
   > >   
   > > Neither of those words are in the scriptures. Yet in the greek there was a   
      
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