[continued from previous message]   
      
   > I don't have to have been there to recognize the signs of   
   > self-deluding on your part.   
   >   
   > > Even so Jesus is holding the door open for you while you still have breath.   
   >   
   > LOL! I don't see any reason to believe that's true.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > It was a point that the young man made about Jesus   
   > > > > > > > > > > the prayers of man that he blessed and then handed it to   
   the   
   > > > > > > > > > > Heavenly   
   > > > > > > > > > > Father   
   > > > > > > > > > > to bless, and return the answers for them. It is also   
   backed up in   
   > > > > > > > > > > scripture   
   > > > > > > > > > > From the first chapter of Genesis on.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > No, the plural of God in the book of Genesis is just a   
   remnant of   
   > > > > > > > > > early Israelite polytheism. It has nothing to do with God   
   the Father.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > It was mentioned before there were any Israelites. The young   
   man   
   > > > > > > > > mentioned   
   > > > > > > > > the realities of that without making a big point about it, for   
   which   
   > > > > > > > > I’d   
   > > > > > > > > bet many religious types will flack him for it, as well as   
   calling   
   > > > > > > > > him a   
   > > > > > > > > total fraud because it does not match up with their supposed   
   doctrines   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > men. Jesus when he returned to the Father was seated at the   
   right hand   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > the Heavenly Father. NOT on the throne of the Heavenly Father.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > No, the setting of the story in Genesis is pre-Israelite but in   
   > > > > > > > reality it was composed in Israel much later than that. And Jesus   
   > > > > > > > sitting at the right hand of his Father is a remnant from the   
   early   
   > > > > > > > days of Jesus' preachings, when he was considered to be somewhat   
   less   
   > > > > > > > of a ruler than his Father was.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Did you bother to read what I said? It sure does not look like it.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Read it? The whole paragraph is a rebuttal of what you said.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > I stated that it was before the time of the Israelites, so just what   
   were   
   > > > > you   
   > > > > rebutting?   
   > > >   
   > > > Just that. I said it was composed after Israel became a nation, not   
   > > > before.   
   > >   
   > > Which I said right off the bat. Which is one of the reasons I question your   
   > > reading skills.   
   >   
   > No, your claim was that it was "mentioned before there were any   
   > Israelites." It's still visible in the attributions above.   
   >   
   > > Now of course if you just skim things with no thoughts and jump over   
   lengthy   
   > > things I can understand why you miss much, sort of like Mitch does.   
   >   
   > What lengthy things have I supposedly jumped over?   
   >   
   > > > > > > > Why couldn't you go to heaven and get spiritually saved there?   
   > > > > > > > Wouldn't that be fun?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Those that die and are not of God, go to hell.Sin is not allowed in   
   > > > > > > heaven,   
   > > > > > > I suppose you could have a vision of heaven, so as to see what   
   truth and   
   > > > > > > life is like and the same thing with hell.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > So you just didn't want to go to heaven at that point in your life?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > I have never been to heaven via a vision, or tele-transportation or   
   > > > > physical   
   > > > > death.   
   > > >   
   > > > Is that why you didn't want to go to heaven at that point in your   
   > > > life?   
   > >   
   > > I am ready to go at anytime, but I have certain responsibilities here that   
   > > have to be followed through until at the minimum those I care about can be   
   > > well taken care of.   
   >   
   > Wouldn't God be able to take over those responsibilities for you?   
   >   
   > > >   
   > > >    
   > > >   
   > > > > > > > And don't forget the fire of Hell itself. Real flames, right? I   
   > > > > > > > notice you didn't mention that in your description of Hell. And   
   by the   
   > > > > > > > way, in the Bible, Satan is punished in Hell. He doesn't rule   
   over   
   > > > > > > > like Sunday School theology would have us believe.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Satan is the god of this world, At the bottom of the pit there is   
   fire,   
   > > > > > > but   
   > > > > > > the lake of Fire and brimstone is elsewhere. Hell is a holding   
   pen, it   
   > > > > > > is   
   > > > > > > not the final resting place of the damned.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > So where is Hell located, anyway? In the center of the earth?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > A pit, with sides deep in the earth   
   > > >   
   > > > Where on earth would that be? Can we set up sight-seeing trips to   
   > > > visit it?   
   > >   
   > > Would your heart be strong enough to survive the trip to hell? I’ve heard   
   > > of more than one who had severe cases of PTSD.   
   >   
   > I wasn't suggesting going into Hell, just going to visit it from the   
   > outside. But your knowledge of geography must be very poor if you   
   > think there's somewhere on earth where people are being tormented in a   
   > a "pit." If there was such a thing it would be on all the maps, to say   
   > the least.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > What God would give a man a billion afternoons of peace   
   and pure   
   > > > > > > > > > > delights?   
   > > > > > > > > > > And what God would want a billion Karen’s there to   
   oppose him and   
   > > > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > > > people that entered heaven?   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > Non sequitur.   
   > > > > > > > > Can’t relate. Eh?   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > I can relate to it, all right. It's just that it has nothing to   
   do   
   > > > > > > > with what we were taking about.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > You were the one who brought that up. Look up a few paragraphs.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > I talked about afternoons of savage torture, not afternoons of peace   
   > > > > > and delights. That second part was added in by you, for no apparent   
   > > > > > reason.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Then why did you use the term ’billion afternoons’?   
   > > >   
   > > > It was part of my comparison to American Indians torturing captives to   
   > > > death in the space of an afternoon. Then you introduced other kinds   
   > > > of afternoons, showing that you weren't following the discussion.   
   > >   
   > > So you WERE the one who brought up billions of afternoons, eh?   
   > > I understood you just fine. Which is why I should you the fallacy of your   
   > > arguments and the outcomes of RL experiences.   
   >   
   > You showed me nothing of the sort.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > In Revelation it speaks of those believers being tortured   
   for up to   
   > > > > > > > > > > 10   
   > > > > > > > > > > days.   
   > > > > > > > > > > Samson was tortured for much longer. In the dark ages the   
   RCC   
   > > > > > > > > > > tortured   
   > > > > > > > > > > for   
   > > > > > > > > > > days and often until death. Those were not acts of God, it   
   was pure   
   > > > > > > > > > > evil.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > Hell supposedly lasts forever, not 10 days. And when was   
   Samson,   
   > > > > > > > > > specifically, tortured for much longer? In that folk tale,   
   don't they   
   > > > > > > > > > just put out his eyes?   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Yes. But that was not hell I was speaking of. It is torture   
   that you   
   > > > > > > > > mentioned, that was somehow limited in time and scope. Or did   
   you   
   > > > > > > > > forget   
   > > > > > > > > your   
   > > > > > > > > premise just made above?   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > What does Samson have to do with what we're discussing?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > He was an example of someone who was tortured.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > How do you know Samson didn't go to heaven?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Because the righteous dead went to paradise. Before Christ rose from   
   the   
   > > > > dead.   
   > > > > It is in the bible. Not written in those exact words but written by   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)