[continued from previous message]   
      
   >That reality is not of my making. However the reality of it you will see.   
      
   It's not of your making, but it is of your gullibility.   
      
   >I just pray that you would be counted worthy   
      
   I'm already "worthy."  I don't need to be validated by your god.   
      
   >> > > > Some plant, some water, but it is God that gives the increase.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Could that planting and watering be the proselytizing you deny you're   
   >> > > attempting here in alt.atheism?   
   >> >   
   >> > Seed only takes root on fallowed ground. Watering one helps the roots grow   
   >> > strong. Only God gives the increase. Not my responsibility. So far, I have   
   >> > seen little to no evidence of any seed taking root. There is much thorny   
   >> > weeds here that would seek to destroy and chock off seeds thing root.   
   >>   
   >> Along similar lines, I guess we don't need missionaries, since "only   
   >> God gives the increase".   
   >   
   >Someone has to sow the seed. And others water. Only God can save them.   
      
   So your agenda is to "sow seed" which then God can use to save people?   
   >>   
   >> > So just why are you proselytizing in alt.bible?   
   >>   
   >> I'm discussing your ideas, not proselytizing. And I'm posting in   
   >> alt.bible because you entered that newsgroup in your initial post. I   
   >> seen no reason to remove it.   
   >   
   >You moved far afield from the subject matter. And I am just discussing your   
   >ideas.   
      
   Some threads are like that.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *he sometimes refers to a time when he was dead   
   and   
   >> > > > > > > > > sometimes refers   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to a situation where he was teetering between   
   life and death;   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it?   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both. His OOBE and the realities of being in a   
   spiritual state   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > he   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > assumed he was back on earth as he saw things   
   clearly. Had he   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > been   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > back   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > his body he would have felt the consciousness   
   that his body was   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aware   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, the Apostle, could not tell when he visited   
   heaven whether   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > he   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > was   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the body or out of it. He had been stoned to   
   death at least   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > once,   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as I   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > recalled he was killed something like three   
   different times.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > But these days he says he *was* dead, not that he   
   was at that   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > time   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe dead, from his perspective.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure as to whom you are speaking of here.   
   >> > > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > What is the name of this thread? Is it "I died and was   
   teetering on   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > the edge of death for 18 years"? Or is it *I died*...   
   and went to   
   >> > > > > > > > > > > heaven for 18 days"   
   >> > > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > > The latter, of course, but the Apostle Paul was just   
   mentioned and   
   >> > > > > > > > > > His   
   >> > > > > > > > > > trip   
   >> > > > > > > > > > to heaven so I could not tell to whom you were referring.   
   >> > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > If it was the latter, why does Gabe describe his condition   
   being   
   >> > > > > > > > > teetering between life and death, rather than just death?   
   >> > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > From what I gathered those things happened on and off during   
   various   
   >> > > > > > > > days   
   >> > > > > > > > in   
   >> > > > > > > > the midst of the 18 days.   
   >> > > > > > > > His book coming out should cover a whole lot more detail, and   
   I plan   
   >> > > > > > > > on   
   >> > > > > > > > buying it to see what all was written.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > What do you think about his association with Kenneth Copeland?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > What association?   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > He's involved in the scam of the prosperity gospel   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Like I said, he died years ago.   
   >> > > > Scams are done by fraudsters, false prophets, etc.   
   >> > > > And hucksters are more gullible that those they defraud.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > What about wealthy televangelists? Is it God, in your opinion, that   
   >> > > makes them rich? Or is it all a scam?   
   >> >   
   >> > Some are and some aren’t. God is weeding out the garden.   
   >>   
   >> Are you suggesting that there are less televangelists now than there   
   >> used to be (since, in your view, some have been "weeded out")?   
   >   
   >How do you arrive at that conclusion?   
      
   According to you, they're being weeded out, which would leave fewer of   
   them after some of them have been weeded out.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > > > Obviously the yung man said he was dead, with rigor   
   mortise at the   
   >> > > > > > > > > > fore,   
   >> > > > > > > > > > and at the end he was to be or about to be, put into a   
   body bag.   
   >> > > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > > What about post-mortem decay, as mentioned by some other   
   poster?   
   >> > > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > > What about it, they did not view the video, you did, you also   
   heard   
   >> > > > > > > > that   
   >> > > > > > > > they   
   >> > > > > > > > put him on life support systems, which is typically done on   
   the dead   
   >> > > > > > > > in   
   >> > > > > > > > order   
   >> > > > > > > > to preserve short term viability in order to harvest organs   
   from those   
   >> > > > > > > > that   
   >> > > > > > > > are organ donors.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > They had to wait 18 days after he died to harvest his organs?   
   Was he   
   >> > > > > > > even an organ donor to begin with?   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > I never said that, I just explained that the same process was   
   used to   
   >> > > > > > keep   
   >> > > > > > him ’alive’ as for them, I gathered that his family was hoping   
   that   
   >> > > > > > he   
   >> > > > > > would recover naturally as others have. After all they gave him   
   meds to   
   >> > > > > > assure that he would be put into a comatose state which helps   
   many to   
   >> > > > > > recover from brain injuries.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > A comatose state is not death.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Who said it was?   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Anyone who claims Gabe Poirot was dead for 18 days.   
   >> >   
   >> > You are not a Doctor, you know not what is clinically dead.   
   >>   
   >> I don't have to be to know that some people claim he was dead.   
   >   
   >Yet is is a point that you make, even when the doctor said he was,   
      
   You seem to believe that people can't be "pronounced dead."  It   
   happens all the time, without the need for 18 days of waiting.   
      
   >> > Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest   
   >> > send him to my father's house:   
   >> >   
   >> > Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest   
   they   
   >> > also come into this place of torment.   
   >> >   
   >> > Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let   
   them   
   >> > hear them.   
   >> >   
   >> > Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from   
   >> > the dead, they will repent.   
   >> >   
   >> > Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,   
   >> > neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.   
   >>   
   >> A silly little story.   
   >>   
   >> > > > > > > > That is the problem with agendized dismissive arguments, they   
   toss out   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)