XPost: alt.atheism   
   From: .robert@mu.way   
      
   On Nov 1, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   (Message-ID:<8krcgk5hpbclq120ao7g2hu4sqmv2apto2@4ax.com>):   
      
   > On Sat, 01 Nov 2025 00:39:36 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   >   
   > > On Oct 31, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > (Message-ID:):   
   > >   
   > > > On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 19:48:16 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   > > >   
   > > > > On Oct 30, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > (Message-ID:):   
   > > > >   
   > > > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 13:01:50 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>  wrote:   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > > On Oct 29, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > > > (Message-ID:<45h3gk5dovtqb2n2hf53t46se5evcg7hne@4ax.com>):   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 19:18:07 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>    
   wrote:   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > > > > > (Message-ID:):   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 15:51:31 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way>    
   wrote:   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 27, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Of course I read it. Didn't you read my reply? Remember I said   
   the   
   > > > > > > > feeling of peace you had was just a placebo.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > God does not hand out placebo’s   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > I wasn't suggesting that he does. I was suggesting that there is no   
   > > > > > God, and what happened to you was the result of a placebo and not   
   > > > > > God.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > At the best here, you used the word inappropriately. One has to be   
   given a   
   > > > > placebo, and then one takes it unknowingly.   
   > > >   
   > > > No, for the placebo effect to occur, you just have to believe what   
   > > > you're doing is effective; that expectation of efficacy can of its own   
   > > > then sometimes lead to improvement.   
   > >   
   > > You did not refer to an effect.   
   >   
   > The words "placebo" and "placebo effect" are essentially the same   
   > thing.   
   >   
   > > > > So who gave it?   
   > > >   
   > > > LOL! You did. The "sugar pill" here was prayer, and your belief in   
   > > > the power of prayer is what led to the feelings of peace that you   
   > > > report. It's all reducible to brain chemistry.   
   > >   
   > > You have no proof of that, while I have plenty of personal proof through   
   > > experience.   
   >   
   > Like I say, your personal experience is just a psychological artifact   
   > of your beliefs.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > Even here on earth. The Holy Spirit indwells the   
   heart/spirit of   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > every   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > spirit   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > filled believer, and interoperates with each person at   
   the same   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > time.   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > He   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > is   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > just like Jesus same attributes, same power, same   
   knowledge, same   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > mentorship   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > as did Jesus when he walked on earth as a man. That is   
   what he   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > meant   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > when   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > he   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > said “I will send to you Another Comforter"   
   > > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > Why couldn't this extra comforter be provided earlier?   
   > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Because of the Law Covenant, and also as well as Christ   
   had not come   
   > > > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > > > earth   
   > > > > > > > > > > to redeem us from the Law Covenant and set us all free   
   from it. He   
   > > > > > > > > > > had   
   > > > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > > > return to heaven in order that this same spirit that was   
   in him   
   > > > > > > > > > > could   
   > > > > > > > > > > be   
   > > > > > > > > > > in   
   > > > > > > > > > > all of the believers.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > God needed to rescue us from something he had created, i.e.,   
   the "Law   
   > > > > > > > > > of the Covenant" which he created??   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > You said you read the Bible, why is it that you do not know it   
   was   
   > > > > > > > > negotiated   
   > > > > > > > > and was a covenant between God and the Israelites, and   
   exclusive of   
   > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > Gentiles unless they became Israilites.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > So you're saying God devised a new covenant because the   
   Israelites   
   > > > > > > > couldn't keep the old covenant.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > No   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > The first covenant failed, and it wasn't God's fault, and it wasn't   
   > > > > > the Israelite's fault, according to what you just said there. So   
   > > > > > whose fault was it?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > If you had of read the Old Testament and in regards to the giving of   
   the   
   > > > > law   
   > > > > covenant and the peoples reaction to God, then studied the comments in   
   the   
   > > > > NT   
   > > > > with regard to the Old covenant as well as the purposes of Christ on   
   earth   
   > > > > you might have gleaned a wee bit of insight into the reasons why the   
   Law   
   > > > > Covenant was given in the first place and why there was a newer and   
   better   
   > > > > covenant. A covenant not of Law.   
   > > >   
   > > > Saying "you had to have read" the Bible is not an answer to my   
   > > > question of whose fault was it that the old covenant failed.   
   > >   
   > > You claim to now more of the bible than the average christian. I am   
   average.   
   > > So pony up.   
   >   
   > I'm just going to assume your statement here means you don't know the   
   > answer to the question.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > Why wouldn't God have anticipated this and tried the new   
   covenant to   
   > > > > > > > begin with?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > You said you read the bible and know it better than most   
   christians yet   
   > > > > > > you ask a question like that?   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > What's wrong with the question?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > The question brings to mind the fact that you established yourself and   
   > > > > knowing the Bible better than most, yet you ask a question that you   
   should   
   > > > > have known if you were as capable as you declare yourself to be.   
   > > >   
   > > > Nor is saying "you should know" an answer to my question either.   
   > >   
   > > Very true, but you like to be lazy. OR, you really do not know.   
   >   
   > The question was put to you, so the issue was whether you know, not   
   > whether I know.   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is   
   expedient for you   
   > > > > > > > > > > that I go   
   > > > > > > > > > > away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come   
   unto you;   
   > > > > > > > > > > but   
   > > > > > > > > > > if I depart, I will send him unto you.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > What's the difference between needing a comforter after   
   Jesus left,   
   > > > > > > > > > and needing a comforter *before Jesus allegedly* came to   
   earth to   
   > > > > > > > > > begin with?   
   > > > > > > > >   
      
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