[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > > > in part and see in part, but there I will be made complaint in the   
   > > > > fulness of   
   > > > > His Glory. Plus all the former things will be wiped away to be   
   remembered   
   > > > > no   
   > > > > more. And I have already received the surety of His Promise, in this   
   > > > > world.   
   > > >   
   > > > That doesn't answer the question of whether you're spiritually able to   
   > > > be happy in heaven (not on earth, which is what you replied about)?   
   > >   
   > > OK I know that I would be beyond happy. Part of your statement was if I was   
   > > qualified. Jesus is the one who enables that by faith in him/   
   >   
   > So why hasn't Jesus "enabled" you to go to heaven?   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > There used to be some great scientists, and I am sure   
   there are   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > some   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > now,   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > but to make money often destroys their desire and   
   limits what they   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > can   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > do   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > because of object focus, which limits there ability to   
   follow the   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > offspring trails   
   > > > > > > > > > > > > into other possibly great things. That is how things   
   work best.   
   > > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > > No, science is not a for-profit business activity.   
   > > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > What world do you dwell in?   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > You have a really cynical view of science. My understanding   
   of its   
   > > > > > > > > > purpose is to learn about the natural world, not to make a   
   few bucks.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > You are speaking solely of the hobbyist, typically those with   
   limited   
   > > > > > > > > funds, thereby severely limited.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > No, not at all. I'm talking about professional scientists, whose   
   goal   
   > > > > > > > is to learn, not earn.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Look up the definition of ‘proessional'   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > They earn a salary. How does that make them business executives?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Am I to take that as you have never worked for, or been employed in a   
   > > > > business large of small for even one day in your life? Ever been a   
   project   
   > > > > manager, dept head, or a CEO,CAO, CFO, or Pres, VP or anything   
   equivalent   
   > > > > even remotely?   
   > > >   
   > > > I worked in retail for a number of years, but never reached the CEO   
   > > > level. But have you ever heard of a scientist being a CEO of a   
   > > > science department in a university? Stop trying to project   
   > > > non-scientific values onto scientists.   
   > >   
   > > They are called amongst other job titles, directors. Chancellors, Vice   
   > > Chancellors,, department administrator, etc. With heads for the financial   
   > > aspects of it as well as project administrators for research studies that   
   > > are   
   > > supported by big business’s as well as civil departments from city,   
   county   
   > > and state or federal funding and it is all run very much like big business,   
   > > but sloppily due the nature of academics.   
   >   
   > Which is not the same thing as a CEO. Can you imagine a department   
   > chairperson trying to fire a tenured professor?   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > Having some knowledge of the professional scientists, and the   
   NDA’s   
   > > > > > > > > they   
   > > > > > > > > are forced to sign, and or disclose ongoing private research   
   they do   
   > > > > > > > > as   
   > > > > > > > > a   
   > > > > > > > > hobby, and the business end of it, things are not what they   
   seem, and   
   > > > > > > > > when   
   > > > > > > > > you discover something, and it is found to have value   
   associated with   
   > > > > > > > > it,   
   > > > > > > > > your name on that paper, depending on your position with the   
   corporate   
   > > > > > > > > employer, may be only at the end of a list of Five more or   
   less names   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > others. And even if you were the sole author of the project,   
   and   
   > > > > > > > > director   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > those that were hired to assist you, the corporate chain of   
   command   
   > > > > > > > > takes   
   > > > > > > > > precedence and you are a mere peon added to the list.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Scientists may crave fame and success, but not the money that   
   may come   
   > > > > > > > with those under other circumstances.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Some have a primary focus on their desires to learn and understand   
   or at   
   > > > > > > least start out that way, an then quickly learn that like most   
   people   
   > > > > > > they   
   > > > > > > need to eat and have a decent place to dwell in.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > So now you're claiming that all people, even non-profits, are   
   > > > > > entrepreneurs!   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Some means all? Most NFP’s are entrepreneur's at the corporate lever   
   > > > > are,   
   > > > > and many are con artists, etc.   
   > > >   
   > > > I'm sure there are some con-artists, but others just want to make the   
   > > > world a better place. Or are you projecting your own greed onto them?   
   > >   
   > > LOL, greed? Me?   
   >   
   > Or stupidity. You seem to think money is everything to everyone,   
   > which isn't true.   
   >   
   > > > > Even at the University level there are many empire builders as are   
   > > > > many educational levels.   
   > > >   
   > > > Any examples?   
   > > >   
   > > > > But that whole field is corrupted and the sincere educators are run   
   over   
   > > > > and   
   > > > > taken advantage of.   
   > > >   
   > > > Any examples for that?   
   > >   
   > > Yes to both As well as one I became involved with along with other people   
   in   
   > > defense of a couple professors and their department and locale. Wherein the   
   > > jealousy and rivalry of those who were trying to take away their funding   
   > > with   
   > > rancor and bitterness was very obvious in out discussions be before the   
   > > Chancellor. Their department generated more students and educated more and   
   > > as   
   > > a result helped grow the environment which then allowed weaker departments   
   > > to   
   > > survive. Yet they wanted to shut it down, even though it was more   
   successful   
   > > than anything the naysayers were involved with and drew few students.   
   >   
   > So if the weaker ones were allowed to survive, how were they being run   
   > over?   
   >   
   > > > > > > > > I have had too many friends that were burnt out because of it   
   and quit   
   > > > > > > > > their   
   > > > > > > > > fields entirely, and could not even do further work on their   
   personal   
   > > > > > > > > projects due to the forced agreements. Now some of my children   
   and   
   > > > > > > > > grandchildren are in various fields and some of them cannot   
   even speak   
   > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > me   
   > > > > > > > > in any degree about what they are doing. Which is not a bad   
   thing,   
   > > > > > > > > lol,   
   > > > > > > > > since without it we can just be family and not get side   
   tracked.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > What scientific fields are they in? When I was collaborating   
   with my   
   > > > > > > > physics professors in undergraduate school and graduate school,   
   I was   
   > > > > > > > never told we had an NDA and that I therefore couldn't talk   
   about what   
   > > > > > > > I was researching.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > They are employed in their profession, as were all my my friends.   
   And   
   > > > > > > some   
   > > > > > > of my friends had their own companies and for legal reasons as   
   well as   
   > > > > > > self   
   > > > > > > preservation had to require others to sign them. If you knew   
   anything   
   > > > > > > about   
   > > > > > > business you would understand why. It is extremely difficult to   
   design   
   > > > > > > and   
   > > > > > > NDA and word it is such a way as to allow freedom of expression   
   that we   
   > > > > > > all   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)