XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.religion.christian   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
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   Thu, 20 Nov 2025 15:11:52 -0500   
   <3f6uhk55ta73bonnm4lh7muvuvronsuru1@4ax.com>   
   "Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and   
   "Honestly is my middle name"   
   James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   >> Stupid, brainwashing lie #5: eternal torment contradicts God’s love   
      
   > ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY CORRECT. Pure 100% love and torture do not   
   > belong together in a sane mind. Thus according to your teachings, God   
   > is crazy.   
      
   No, it's only according to your own emotional contradictions and denials   
   of Scripture that you seek to label solid truth as "crazy".   
      
   God’s love never cancels His justice. Scripture joins both in every   
   place where judgment appears. Love does not eliminate righteousness, and   
   righteousness does not diminish love. The cross proves both truths at   
   once. God “put [Christ] forward as a propitiation by his blood” to   
   satisfy His righteous judgment “so that he might be just and the   
   justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:25–26, ESV).   
   Perfect love and perfect justice meet in the same act.   
      
   If eternal judgment made God unloving, then the cross would make no   
   sense. Christ died and rose because sin deserves a penalty we cannot   
   bear (1 Corinthians 15:1–4, ESV). God did not sweep sin away. He judged   
   it in His Son. That shows mercy to those who believe, and justice to   
   those who refuse Him.   
      
   Claiming that eternal judgment contradicts love overlooks the entire   
   argument of Romans.   
      
         God revealed His wrath because “men suppress the truth” (Romans   
          1:18–32, ESV).   
      
         God renders to each man according to his works (Romans 2:4–11,   
          ESV).   
      
         Every mouth stops before Him because “all the world” stands   
          guilty (Romans 3:19–20, ESV).   
      
   This is not cruelty. This is justice. Perfect justice flows from perfect   
   holiness.   
      
   Jesus Himself taught degrees of judgment. It will be “more tolerable”   
   for Sodom than for the cities that rejected Him (Matthew 11:22–24, ESV).   
   Degrees assume conscious experience. Jesus warned of *Gehenna*, “where   
   their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48, ESV;   
   *hell* [Gehenna]). Those words come from Isaiah 66:24 and describe   
   unending disgrace, not extinction.   
      
   Revelation speaks the same way. “The smoke of their torment goes up   
   forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night” (Revelation   
   14:11, ESV). Torment that rises forever cannot come from those who no   
   longer exist. The lake of fire receives the devil, the beast, and the   
   false prophet, and “they will be tormented day and night forever and   
   ever” (Revelation 20:10, ESV). The same place receives all not found in   
   the book of life (Revelation 20:15, ESV). Scripture never gives two   
   different destinies in the same place.   
      
   Love offers salvation. Justice answers rebellion. The cross shows both   
   without contradiction.   
      
   God proved His love by giving His Son.   
   God proves His justice when those who reject His Son face the judgment   
   He warned of.   
      
   Love does not erase justice. Justice does not erase love. Both shine in   
   Christ.   
      
      
   > Most men consider torture barbaric, and not necessary to punish   
   > evildoers. Taking their life away is the ultimate punishment.   
   >   
   >>     • God’s love shines in the cross, where Christ bore wrath for   
   sinners   
   >>       (1 Corinthians 15:1–4; Romans 3:23–26, ESV).   
      
   > Well, "cross" is a pagan symbol. The REAL word the Bible uses is   
   > "stauros', an upright pole.   
      
      
   Stupid, would-be-brainwashing liar. It is an established, historical   
   fact that the Romans in that era, attached a cross-beam (patibulum) to   
   the The pole (staurus).   
      
   1. Plautus (c. 254–184 BC) – *Miles Gloriosus* 359–360   
      
         "Patibulum ferat per urbem, deinde affigatur cruci" (Plautus,   
          *Miles Gloriosus* 359–360).   
      
         ("Let him carry the patibulum through the city, then be fastened   
           to the cross").   
      
   This shows that the condemned carried the patibulum to the site of   
   execution, consistent with Gospel accounts (John 19:17).   
      
   2. Seneca the Younger (c. 4 BC–AD 65) – *De Vita Beata* 19.3   
      
         "Aliter patiuntur bestiarum ictus aut patibulo suffiguntur"   
          (Seneca, *De Vita Beata* 19.3)   
      
         ("They suffer blows from beasts or are fastened to the   
           patibulum.")   
      
   Seneca mentions criminals being fastened to the patibulum, indicating it   
   was a physical beam.   
      
   3. Justinian’s Digest (compiled AD 533)   
      
         "Qui patibulo adfixus est" *Digest* 48.19.28 §15.   
      
         ("He who has been affixed to the patibulum.")   
      
   This shows legal terminology acknowledging the patibulum as part of   
   crucifixion.   
      
   These sources confirm that Roman crucifixion involved the patibulum,   
   which the condemned carried and was affixed to, forming the traditional   
   cross structure (T or †). The concept of outstretched arms (e.g., John   
   21:18) assumes this form.   
      
   Claiming "staurus", cannot include a patibulum, because it doesn't say   
   "patibulum", is like saying "boat" can't include an "oar", because it   
   doesn't say "oar". You don't have to tell someone a pole had a   
   cross-beam on it, because it would have been understood by those who   
   witnessed Roman crucifixions.   
      
      
   >>     • Love does not remove justice; it satisfies it.   
      
   > Yes, God is a God of justice. (Deut 32:4)   
      
      
   And justice means eternal, conscious torment for those who reject God's   
   love, mercy and grace in Christ's propitiating atonement, not providing   
   them with an escape OTHER THAN the one He offered in Christ. You promote   
   a FALSE GOSPEL which provides INCENTIVE to reject Christ's atonement,   
   and promises deliverance from conscious torment which WILL NOT BE   
   RECEIVED by anyone who believes your satanically manipulated LIES.   
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
   https://christrose.news/salvation   
      
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)