XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.religion.christian
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Thu, 20 Nov 2025 15:11:52 -0500
<3f6uhk55ta73bonnm4lh7muvuvronsuru1@4ax.com>
"Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
"Honestly is my middle name"
James wrote:
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>> • Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the
>> Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV).
> Yes, that is true. Paul was one of the 144,000 who go to Heaven. Those
> that die go immediately to Heaven.
Paul did not claim a place among a special class of 144,000.
He stated a truth common to **all** who belong to Christ:
“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” (2
Corinthians 5:8, ESV).
He did not limit this to a select group.
He wrote it as the normal expectation of **every believer**.
Several details show this clearly.
1. Paul said **all believers** have the same hope.
“We have a building from God… eternal in the heavens” (2 Corinthians
5:1, ESV).
He did not say, “A small group has this hope.”
He spoke of every person in Christ.
2. The New Testament never divides the redeemed into two groups—one on
earth and one in Heaven.
Instead, it says all believers are “with Christ” when they die
(Philippians 1:23).
No distinction. No hierarchy.
3. Revelation’s 144,000 is a specific, symbolic group tied to Israel in
a prophetic context (Revelation 7:4–8; 14:1–5).
They are called “firstfruits,” not the total redeemed (Revelation
14:4).
A firstfruits offering is the **beginning**, not the whole.
4. Revelation also shows “a great multitude that no one could number”
standing before the throne (Revelation 7:9).
That multitude is not the 144,000.
Yet they stand in Heaven, clothed in white, worshiping the Lamb.
So more than 144,000 clearly enter Heaven.
5. Jesus promised the same destination to all who trust Him.
“Where I am, there will my servant be also” (John 12:26, ESV).
“I will come again and will take you to myself” (John 14:3, ESV).
He did not restrict these promises to a numbered group.
6. Paul said all who die in Christ “sleep in Jesus” and will be raised
to be “with the Lord always” (1 Thessalonians 4:14–17, ESV).
The entire church is included—no exclusion of millions who would die
over centuries.
So when Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with
the Lord, he spoke as a believer describing the universal hope of
believers, not a privileged class.
If Paul meant only 144,000, he would have said so.
Instead, he wrote, “we… groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling”
(2 Corinthians 5:2), including all Christians.
Scripture teaches one destiny for the redeemed:
To be with Christ at death, and to be raised to glory at His coming.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).
https://christrose.news/salvation
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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