XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.religion.christian
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Tue, 25 Nov 2025 09:17:34 -0500
Blasphemous, False-Gospel, Son of the
Devil James wrote:
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> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 17:01:52 -0600, Christ Rose
> wrote:
>
>> ========================================
>> Thu, 20 Nov 2025 15:11:52 -0500
>> <3f6uhk55ta73bonnm4lh7muvuvronsuru1@4ax.com>
>> "Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
>> "Honestly is my middle name"
>> James wrote:
>> ========================================
>>>> • Revelation states that anyone not found in the book of life is cast
>>>> into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).
>>> True. And "death" and "hell" are also tossed into there. (Rev 20:14)
>>>
>>> And the Bible clearly tells us what the Lake of Fire REPRESENTS, IS
>>> SYMBOLIC OF, ILLUSTRATIVE, FIGURATIVE, EMBLEMATIC OF:
>>>
>>> THE SECOND DEATH! (Rev 20:14)
>>>
>>> Also, you are in a book (Rev) that is almost pure symbolism; dragon,
>>> multiheaded beasts, etc.
>>
>>
>> Self-deluded liar.
>>
>> You pretend as if the mere possibility that something is "symbolic"
>
> Do you believe the beast with multiple head as literal fire?
• You answer before you hear, because you have no answer for the
whole statement. You must deny what comes afterward and promote
distraction and confusion, to pretend you found a basis for
contradiction. This shows you're not seeking truth but
deception.
• Symbolism does NOT make a passage which directly declares
eternal, conscious "torment", suddenly mean "cessation of
existence without conscious torment". So it is not enough for
you to simply keep repeating "Symbolic!", as if merely labeling
it a symbol somehow automatically proves the text means "no
eternal conscious torment", and as if you could convincingly
accomplish with brainwashing, what you could not demonstrate
from the Bible itself.
> And don't forget common sense and the context, and other related
> Scriptures.
It is your position which does this. Common sense and the context point
to the conclusion that a symbol represents the truth it describes, not
the exact opposite of what it indicates. A passage which describes
eternal, conscious "torment" does not, by "common sense" become "no
conscious existence or eternal torment".
Further, common sense understands that when the Bible says the judgment
will be "more tolerable" for some than others, that does not point to
the idea that everyone who is damned will experience the same, instant
cessation of existence as every other damned soul. You accuse the truth
of exactly what you promote in your own obvious falsehoods.
> For instance, The SYMBOLIC lake of fire. That same verse tells us what
> it means. Thus the Lake of Fire represents "The second death".
The text does not say "SYMBOLIC lake of fire". YOU say that, because YOU
don't like it when the text plainly states it will be "torment", "day
and night", with "no rest", and that this conscious condition goes on
"forever and ever". YOU are the self-deluded one seeking deviation from
the text and common sense to accommodate what YOU want the Bible to mean.
>> automatically makes it mean the opposite of what the "symbol" indicates,
>> and therefore that it supports your denials and contrary conclusions.
>
> You give me words, but no proof.
On the contrary. All the plain language which shows the damned will be
exposed to eternal, conscious torment (e.g. "torment", "day and night",
"no rest", "forever and ever", "fire that is not quenched", worms that
"do not die", etc, constitutes the evidence. YOU are the one who has
produced NOTHING that says "instant annihilation without conscious
torment". Then you PRETEND it's opposing views which lack proof. You're
too dishonest to carry on an edifying conversation with.
>>
>> Symbols always convey realities that match the picture, not the opposite
>> of the picture. Dragons, beasts, bowls, trumpets, and lampstands
>> represent real judgments and real events. They never reverse the meaning
>> of the image. A symbol of judgment still communicates judgment, not
>> escape from it.
>
> What is the opposite of a symbol? Take for example Jesus' statement at
> John 11:11.
Notice, he cannot answer the point. He simply tries to create a cloud of
diversion and confusion like a squid blowing a puff of ink.
Symbols do NOT reverse the meaning of the symbol to make conscious
"torment", "day and night", "forever and ever", suddenly mean "instant
cessation of existence without any ongoing conscious torment".
> Thus "asleep" can mean death.
Notice, the text SAYS that "asleep" means death when it wants us to know
it's using symbolic language:
“After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has
fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” The disciples said to him,
“Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken
of his DEATH, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep.”
(John 11:11–13, ESV, emphasis added)
Thus, "sleep" means "death", NOT "alive" and "awake". Yet you contend
that when the Bible says "torment" goes on "day and night", and lasts
"forever and ever", it "ACTUALLY" means "no conscious torment, but
instant annihilation". It is YOUR views which contradict the pattern and
statements of Scripture. You FEIGN loyalty to the Bible while you
promote your own emotional desires over what the Bible plainly states.
>> The vast majority of the "symbols" in Revelation are indicated by words
>> such as "like" or "as". For example, Jesus has hair "like" wool. His
>> voice is "as" the sound of many waters. These symbols do not indicate
>> that Jesus does NOT have a voice, or hair, but describe the literal
>> nature of his literal, existing voice and hair by comparing them to
>> things we understand.
>
> Yes, if a symbol is explained in the Bible, then we accept it.
Where does the Bible "explain" that "torment" which allows "no rest day
or night forever and ever", ACTUALLY means "instant cessation of
existence without conscious torment"? Nowhere. YOU are the one IMPOSING
that idea where it does NOT occur. YOU are the one PRESUMING that simply
saying "symbolic" somehow magically eliminates conscious suffering for
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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