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   children in fire as a sacrifice. But God built a hellfire place to   
   burn forever all who were in there.   
      
   But here is the truth of the matter. THE CONCEPT OF BURNING ALIVE   
   HUMANS NEVER EVEN ENTERED GOD'S MIND, LET ALONE TORTURNG THEM AS WELL.   
   At any rate, the JW's God is really and truly a God of love and   
   justice. For being wicked, the ultimate punishment was to loose one's   
   life. To forfeit everlasting life on a Paradise earth was the maximum   
   punishment. For the wicked, that was a lot to throw away.   
      
   >   
   >      • Jeremiah 7:31 does not address God’s final judgment in Gehenna.   
   >        Jesus used that same valley as the image of final punishment.   
   >        He declared that Gehenna’s fire does not go out and its worm   
   >        does not die (Mark 9:47-48, ESV; the text reads “hell”   
   >        [Gehenna]).   
      
   Gehenna is NOT Hades. (hell) People can get out of hell (Rev 20:13),   
   but not Gehenna .   
      
   When something is destroyed by fire, it stays destroyed. A continual   
   fire meant that they would never get out of there.   
      
   >   
   >      • God revealed this judgment clearly. He spoke of unquenchable   
   >        fire (Isaiah 66:24).   
      
   - New King James   
   Isaiah 66:24  "And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of   
   the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die,   
   and their fire is not quenched. they shall be an abhorrence to all   
   flesh.''   
      
   Notice even with the fire CONTINUALLY burning, it doesn't burn up   
   their corpses. Thus it is not a literal fire.   
      
      
      
   Jesus applied these words to personal   
   >        punishment, not national ruin. He warned that a man is “thrown   
   >        into the unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43, ESV; the text reads   
   >        “hell” [Gehenna]). This fire functions; it does not fail. It   
   >        continues while the person suffers.   
      
   Nobody is tortured with Jehovah in charge, because His foremost   
   attribute is love. Yes he punishes the wicked, but not by pulling   
   their fingernails out, or stretching people on a rack, or having a   
   thumb screw put on them, and ESP not by a literal fire.   
      
   The churches god is wicked and barbaric, and is a sadist. I am   
   surprised he don't throw them in boiling oil! (maybe that is coming   
   next) He is actually worse than all the pagan gods put together.   
      
   >   
   >      • Symbols never teach the opposite of what they picture. Isaiah   
   >        66:24 describes continual abhorrence. Jesus used that same   
   >        picture to warn of relentless judgment. Revelation 14:11   
   >        reveals that “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and   
   >        ever” (Revelation 14:11, ESV). The text describes torment. It   
   >        does not describe a momentary flash of destruction. Smoke rises   
   >        forever because torment continues forever. A vanished person   
   >        cannot produce perpetual smoke.   
      
   See, I told you, their god is worse than Hitler and all the evil   
   rulers that ever lived. Thank God for Jehovah. (1 John 4:8)   
      
   >   
   >      • The New Testament gives the clearest revelation of personal   
   >        judgment. It distinguishes people from impersonal realities.   
   >        God destroys death and Hades as abstract enemies (Revelation   
   >        20:14). But He casts people into the lake of fire where they   
   >        experience conscious torment (Revelation 20:10; 20:15).   
      
   Yes, here is that Satanic god of the churches again. Satan is very   
   pleased with him, but fears the real God of the Bible, Jehovah.   
      
      
   Nations   
   >        can cease to exist. A soul does not.   
      
   If a soul can die, then it ceases to exist. How do you describe the   
   soul at Gen 2:7?   
      
      
      
   >Jesus said God “can   
   >        destroy both soul and body in Gehenna” (Matthew 10:28, ESV; the   
   >        text reads “hell” [Gehenna]). Destroy does not mean annihilate.   
      
   "Strong's Ref. # 622   
      
   Romanized  apollumi   
   Pronounced ap-ol'-loo-mee   
      
   from GSN0575 and the base of GSN3639; to destroy fully (reflexively,   
   to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:"   
      
   Yes, 'cease to exist' or "parish" falls within Strong's definition.   
      
   Hell is not Gehenna. Hell is Hades. And people get out of Hades, but   
   not Gehenna. (look it up)   
      
   >        God remains the active agent. The punishment fits the picture:   
   >        an unquenchable fire that never completes its consuming.   
      
   Can't you see Satan's influence on you? He has made you believe the   
   Bible God is cruel to the extreme. He's not. I pray you will see that   
   some day. Otherwise, Satan wins here.   
      
   >   
   >      • Jeremiah 7:31 condemned Israel’s sin. It did not deny God’s   
   >        final judgment. Jesus announced that judgment with sharper   
   >        clarity. He warned that it would be “more tolerable on the day   
   >        of judgment” for Sodom than for Capernaum (Matthew 11:24, ESV).   
   >        Different degrees of punishment cannot apply to non-existence.   
   >        He said of Judas, “it would have been better for that man if he   
   >        had not been born” (Mark 14:21, ESV). Non-existence cannot be   
   >        “better” than non-existence. These statements require conscious   
   >        judgment.   
      
   Not really. If Judas was never born, his relatives would not have to   
   face the shame of him.   
      
   >   
   >      • Gehenna’s fire burns without interruption because its   
   >        punishment does not end. God never commanded Judah’s vile   
   >        Topheth. But He did reveal His own just, everlasting punishment   
   >        for those who reject His Son.   
      
   There is nothing 'just' about torture.   
      
   You say none existence doesn't have different degrees. Neither does   
   your Satanic literal fires.   
      
   For example, if one man killed another and did not repent, he is bound   
   for a literal fire. Hitler killed millions, is he going to occupy the   
   same place as the man who killed only one person?   
      
   Your 'fires' suffer the same fate as non-existence. There is no   
   degrees either in Gehenna or the Lake of Fire. Everybody gets the same   
   fire.   
      
   >   
   >   
   >> Churches: Lake of fire is **literal fire.   
   >> Bible: Death and hell are tossed into the Lake of Fire. (Rev 20:14)   
   >> **Thus that fire can't be literal, but is symbolic.   
   >   
   >   
   >Bible: Lake of fire is literal fire prepared for immaterial beings   
   >        (Matthew 10:28; 25:41).   
   >   
   >Church: Lake of fire is literal fire prepared for immaterial beings   
   >        (Matthew 10:28; 25:41).   
   >   
   >Watchtower: Hitler! Symbol! Symbol! Not literal! Not literal! THEREFORE,   
   >	    no conscious torment or suffering!!   
      
   What's your point?   
      
   >   
   >      • God is a spirit (John 4:24). Angels are spirits (Hebrews 1:14).   
   >        Men have immaterial souls that cannot be killed by men when the   
   >        body is killed (Matthew 10:28).   
      
   But God CAN kill a soul. Thus the soul can die, just as Eze 18:4 says.   
      
      
   >The Bible is filled with   
   >        "literal" entities which are not subject to earth-physics.   
   >   
   >      • The lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels   
   >        (Matthew 25:41). Therefore, it is to be expected that the   
   >        "fire" which will "torment" those in the lake of fire, is   
   >        LITERAL fire which is suitable for tormenting immaterial   
   >        beings.   
      
   Then please explain to me the meaning of a "soul" at Gen 2:7. Also,   
   the Bible says life forms other than humans are also "souls":   
      
   - Darby's Bible   
   Genesis 1:20  And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living   
   souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens.   
   Where do those souls go when they die? Please answer.   
   >   
   >      • "literal" doesn't mean "only earth-physics" as we know it. It   
   >        means   
   >   
   >Literal, as it pertains to spirit beings, means real in fact and true in   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)