XPost: alt.religion.christian   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   You affirm John 14:6, yet you deny the very judgment Jesus warns about.   
   Christ declares Himself the only way, the only truth, and the only life   
   (John 14:6, ESV). That same Christ warns of a resurrection that   
   separates men into life or judgment (John 5:29, ESV). Nothing in His   
   words allows a long delay, a probation period, or a post-resurrection   
   reform. Jesus ties resurrection directly to destiny, and He grounds that   
   destiny in one’s relation to Him. That is why He presses the urgency of   
   faith today.   
      
   You quote Romans 6:7 as if death itself frees any man from sin. The   
   context refutes your claim. Paul explains that freedom from sin belongs   
   to those united with Christ in His death: “We know that our old self was   
   crucified with him… so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin”   
   (Romans 6:6, ESV). Paul is not describing unbelievers dying physically.   
   He describes believers who participate in Christ’s death by faith. If   
   Romans 6:7 meant what you claim, no one would need Christ at all. Death   
   itself would cleanse sin. Paul says the opposite. Only union with Christ   
   gives that freedom.   
      
   You say judgment may be delayed for centuries. Jesus contradicts you. He   
   links resurrection and judgment together. “Those who have done evil”   
   rise “to the resurrection of judgment” (John 5:29, ESV). Jesus gives no   
   interval for repentance after resurrection. Scripture presents judgment   
   as the next event after death: “It is appointed for man to die once, and   
   after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27, ESV). Not a season of testing.   
   Not a second chance. Judgment.   
      
   You repeat that you never said we do not need Jesus. But your system   
   denies His warnings, removes the urgency He announces, and offers a   
   future where you claim men can escape conscious eternal torment apart   
   from saving faith in Christ. Jesus says the opposite. “Of how much worse   
   punishment… will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the   
   Son of God” (Hebrews 10:29, ESV). “Worse punishment” requires conscious   
   judgment. Extinction knows no degrees. Jesus’ own words forbid your   
   interpretation.   
      
   You say forfeiting eternal life is the greatest consequence. Jesus   
   teaches more. He declares that it will be “more tolerable on the day of   
   judgment for Sodom than for you” (Matthew 11:24, ESV). Degrees of   
   judgment demand consciousness. Jesus uses comparative language.   
   Non-existence provides no categories of “more” or “less.” His words   
   dismantle annihilationism by simple logic.   
      
   You claim that His warning about Judas means nothing more than   
   extinction. Jesus says something far greater. “It would have been better   
   for that man if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24, ESV). If Judas   
   simply ceased to exist, non-existence and never having been born would   
   be identical. Jesus says Judas faces something worse. His words expose a   
   destiny more fearful than extinction. He does not soften the truth. He   
   reveals it.   
      
   You dismiss Jesus’ warning about Gehenna by appealing to your view of   
   God’s character. Jesus does not share your hesitation. “Where their worm   
   does not die and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:48, ESV,   
   “[Gehenna]”). Fire that never ends is pointless if no one suffers. A   
   worm that never dies gains no meaning if no one exists. Jesus uses   
   imagery that conveys continuity, not cessation. Symbols reinforce   
   truths; they do not reverse them.   
      
   Revelation confirms Christ’s warning. “The smoke of their torment goes   
   up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night” (Revelation   
   14:11, ESV). Smoke rising forever depicts ongoing reality, not a   
   momentary evaporation. “No rest day or night” requires consciousness. No   
   symbol in Revelation turns torment into extinction. The Spirit   
   interprets His own symbols consistently.   
      
   You reduce Luke 16 to symbolism to avoid its force, but Jesus names   
   Lazarus. No parable ever does this. And even if it were a parable,   
   symbols never teach the opposite of what they portray. The rich man   
   experiences conscious agony. Abraham experiences conscious comfort.   
   Jesus reveals postmortem awareness. You deny it because it contradicts   
   your doctrine.   
      
   You argue that Matthew 10:28 proves extinction because God “destroys”   
   body and soul in [Gehenna]. But destruction does not mean cessation. God   
   is a spirit, yet He cannot be burned by earthly fire. His spiritual   
   nature does not indicate non-existence. Christ warns that God judges   
   with realities suited to the soul. Jesus calls men to fear that judgment   
   precisely because it is conscious and eternal.   
      
   You dismiss the cross as a pagan symbol. The issue is not shape or   
   ornament. The issue is the atoning death of Christ. “Christ died for our   
   sins… He was buried… He was raised on the third day” (1 Corinthians   
   15:3–4, ESV). His blood alone “cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1:7,   
   ESV). If sinners rise sinless without Him, the cross becomes   
   unnecessary. Paul calls that message “another gospel” (Galatians 1:8–9).   
   You may reject the shape of the cross, but you cannot remove the   
   necessity of Christ’s atoning death.   
      
   The message of Scripture is clear from beginning to end. Judgment   
   follows death. Destiny is fixed at resurrection. Degrees of judgment   
   demand consciousness. Warnings about unquenchable fire and undying worm   
   require continuity. Christ’s words about Judas refute extinction.   
   Revelation confirms eternal torment. Symbols never teach the opposite of   
   what they portray. And the only escape from judgment lies in Christ’s   
   substitutionary death and victorious resurrection.   
      
   “Now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2, ESV). Not later. Not   
   after death. Not after a supposed second chance. Now—while Christ calls,   
   while mercy stands, while His blood cleanses.   
      
   “Go Bible!” indeed—because the Bible refutes your claims at every point.   
      
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)