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   alt.bible      General bible-thumping discussions      96,161 messages   

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   Message 95,535 of 96,161   
   Christ Rose to James   
   Re: Who is fulfilling Mt 24:14 in these    
   18 Dec 25 18:53:11   
   
   [continued from previous message]   
      
   See above. You said the same thing with two different verse references.   
   Just include both references in one statement.   
      
    > Jesus said must worship and serve ONLY God. (Mt 4:10)   
      
       • And since He accepted worship as God without rebuking the ones   
      
           who worshiped Him, He was claiming to be God (Matthew 14:33;   
           Matthew 28:9; John 9:38).   
      
       • The Jews understood this, which is why they tried to stone Him   
      
           (John 10:33).   
      
    > In Heaven, God is STILL the HEAD of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)   
      
       • Husband and wife are both equal as children of God (Galatians   
      
           3:28).   
      
       • The wife voluntarily submits herself to the husband's authority   
      
           (Ephesians 5:22).   
      
       • Submitting to authority does not necessitate inequality of   
      
           being. It's a voluntary role that promotes unity between   
           equals (cf. Philippians 2:6ff.).   
      
    > Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)   
      
   What kind of sophistry is this? He most certainly did not say "not Jesus".   
      
          “And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are   
           invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me,   
           “These are the true words of God.” Then I fell down at his feet   
           to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a   
           fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the   
           testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is   
           the spirit of prophecy.” (Revelation 19:9–10, ESV)   
      
   It was the angel who refused worship. He didn't tell anyone not to   
   worship Jesus.   
      
    > Can you explain them?   
      
   I reject the false premise they have not already been explained at least   
   30 times or more.   
      
       • 9785cae6-9783-4518-ab62-75aeda149fa1@christrose.news   
       • 5bdc6c74-497d-45f3-85e6-ac3398b07aec@christrose.news   
       • 53ff0bef-d9da-417f-8715-8ad7a9334923@christrose.news   
       • 9785cae6-9783-4518-ab62-75aeda149fa1@christrose.news   
       • cnsn4j5hrr1qgn36fbbpaam5ah0fl8iihi@christrose.news   
       • verj4jh818nbur82994vrjo1p629g4ecf1@christrose.news   
       • 5i754jh7d4ioi4796lukir21m5oghhf58k@christrose.news   
       • nkag3jp0ua2u4t6648l38r8535kd41cp3o@christrose   
       • oqa23jp5dqu68t5ms59krsf9kkfte0liv1@christrose   
       • tea23jtm8qv66lfc9tvptdk0u1m0jgtmpb@christrose   
       • 4g923j1ekdre6g6gcq9gccdb1rb3eus4cv@christrose   
       • 2v8u2jpunpthgl1h5omcbf65vvbelcnh4i@christrose   
       • u50t2j9erbknalb6a1l8nn5ke1s99d204o@christrose   
       • vtvs2jt759ggo48eoo25043re97s2jn8hm@christrose   
       • ok1l2jtmq3tokb688hkb26fmarq0kqrojm@christrose   
       • v05e2j5fclhjd57q69s7v94tepm4ovo1sd@christrose   
       • aq4e2j5tr305i2k4p9ohjli7k9ej3ej0ad@christrose   
       • 8p8d2j51c58vat01akhjn6137i2pggr1f2@christrose   
       • t1q72jdvo0pcfp7qopek76o4ec3ure1hjj@christrose   
       • s2p72jpkm2mopjsavepgbfm9aqcniu3lj3@christrose   
       • 1ho72j1ld8qrshtiobe0tnrtes0ah6loon@christrose   
       • g6752jdli02k616sm15ha5v78fqs956idt@christrose   
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       • e8s42j5dno7lmqs3raosnlh2r95lra6sg2@christrose   
       • kfr42jd148tdef0iokggpkirq56t2dkqh1@christrose   
       • 81622jplck6ijg8mmj5copmoe087878r7f@christrose   
       • 0seb1jdrp26p18lg46h6t6i5nt44r699am@christrose   
       • nk680jt46qg9m6vg13pu21gd9u5mf1o8a3@4ax.com   
       • 1cc30j96revbhp94fhlnre86saf0tnie94@4ax.com   
       • nnkevipvol06rvicm02pmg1ep79o7q8rll@4ax.com   
       • u1CdnVGfapT8nOv4nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com   
      
      
   >> proclaims atonement for sin through your own physical   
   >> death,   
   >   
   > Romans 6:7:  "For he who has died has been freed from sin"   
   > John 14:6: "No one comes to the Father except through   
   >                      Me."   
      
      
   The context shows your statement is a lie (noun):   
      
   “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were   
   baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism   
   into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory   
   of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we   
   have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be   
   also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man   
   is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that   
   henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from   
   sin.” (Romans 6:3–7, KJV 1900)   
      
      
   He's talking about believers who died with Christ to sin and rose with   
   him to newness of life through faith, NOT about those who died   
   physically. This is a self-evident lie that you promote, and which you   
   refuse to correct.   
      
      
   >> a lie remains a lie whether you believe it to be true or not   
      
      
   (Next, he will try to CONFUSE the verb "lie" with the noun "lie")   
      
      
   > "1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive."   
   > (Merriam-Webster)   
      
      
   Here's the part you omitted:   
      
   "verb (2)...lied; lying" (Mirriam-Webster.com)   
      
   intransitive verb   
      
   That's the verb form, not the noun form. For example, if someone   
   believes something to be true, they are not "lying" and have not "lied".   
   Their belief in what they are saying, however, does not change the fact   
   that when their statement is false, it is still a "lie" (noun).   
      
   Proof   
      
         “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that   
          they should believe a lie:” (2 Thessalonians 2:11, KJV 1900)   
      
      
   Observe:   
      
   1) They "believe" a lie.   
      
   2) It is still called a "lie", even though they believe it.   
      
      
   Now we get to see if you really mean what you say when you claim to   
   believe the Bible is the final authority and that man-made sources do   
   not invalidate what the Bible teaches:   
      
      
   > "to say or write something that is not true in order to deceive   
   > someone:"   
   > (Cambridge Dictionary   
   > https://dictionary.cambridge.org › dictionary › lie)   
      
      
         1. That's not the Bible. That's a human source. You don't get to   
            invalidate what others say if it comes from a source other   
            than the Bible, then turn around and pretend to invalidate   
            what the Bible teaches from a human source.   
      
         2. Again, you cherry pick the verb form. Here's the context: lie   
            verb (SPEAK FALSELY) B1 [ I ] present participle lying | past   
            tense lied | past participle lied to say or write something   
            that is not true in order to deceive someone: (Cambridge   
            Dictionary)   
      
      
   Observe   
      
         “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that   
          they should believe a lie:” (2 Thessalonians 2:11, KJV 1900)   
      
   1) They "believe" the lie.   
      
   2) It is still called a "lie", even though they believe it's the truth.   
      
   The Bible shows that the noun form of "lie" refers to whether or not the   
   substance of the statement is true, not whether or not the person   
   believes it to be true.   
      
      
   > "A lie is an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used   
   > with the intention of deceiving or misleading someone."   
   > (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Lie)   
      
      
   Again, human sources that are not inspired Scripture, do not invalidate   
   what the Bible teaches. Further, Wikipedia is not even a dictionary.   
   Whoever wrote that article got it wrong. you should submit an edit for that:   
      
   A lie (noun) refers to falsehood as content. It is something that does   
   not correspond to reality, whether or not anyone recognizes it as false.   
   Scripture uses this sense when it speaks of people “believing a lie” (2   
   Thessalonians 2:11, ESV). The lie remains false even when it is   
   sincerely believed.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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