[continued from previous message]   
      
   >You're trying to interpret "start" (arche) as "first created thing". It   
   >actually means "starter" of creation. So yes, Jesus was the cause of   
   >God's creation (Colossians 1:16). He originated it (John 1:3). He   
   >brought it into being (Hebrews 1:2).   
      
   After Jesus was created, all the rest of the things were created   
   THROUGH Jesus.   
      
   >   
   > > Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)   
   >   
   >"firstborn" (pr?totokos) includes the meaning "preeminent". It points to   
   >Jesus authority over creation, as one who has the "right of a firstborn"   
   >Son. That this means Jesus is the Creator rather than created, is   
   >evident in what you omitted from the context:   
   >   
   >       “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all   
   >        creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on   
   >        earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or   
   >        rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and   
   >        for him.” (Colossians 1:15–16, ESV)   
      
   Yes, and without God, Jesus could not have created anything   
      
   -- King James   
   Genesis 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.   
      
   So who is behind all the creations?   
      
   >   
   >    • This is why Watchtower has to keep eisegeting "other" into   
   >      Colossians 1, where it does not occur.   
      
   And your favorite translation also includes words for clarity. They   
   all do it.   
      
   >   
   >    • This is not to make something "clear" which would have been obscure   
   >      without the addition of "other".   
      
   Since the Bible clearly says Jesus was created, he couldn't have   
   created himself.   
      
   >   
   >    • It only makes sense if you are trying to enforce a denial of   
   >      Christ's deity despite what the passage plainly states.   
      
   You keep repeating that falsehood. This may help you:   
      
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
   Jesus is a deity. (a god)   
      
      
   >   
   > > God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)   
   >   
   >    • The Bible teaches there is only one God Being (Deut. 6:4).   
   >   
   >    • The Bible teaches three persons are God:   
      
   OK, let's look at all three and see where they say Jesus is God::   
      
      
   The Father (1   
   >   
   >        Corinthians 8:6)   
      
   -- New King James   
   1 Corinthians 8:6  yet for us there is only one God, the Father, of   
   whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ,   
   through whom are all things, and through whom we live.   
      
   It says GOD is the Father. It doesn't say Jesus is.   
      
   >, Son (John 1:1; John 20:28)   
      
   The Greek grammar is not followed at John 1:1. It really says Jesus   
   was "a god".   
      
   -- New King James   
   John 20:28  And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my   
   God!''   
      
   "Oh my God!","Holy smoke!", "Great Caesars Ghost!" It is an   
   exclamatory statement.   
      
      
      
   , and Holy Spirit   
   >        (Acts 5:3-4).   
      
   Is the Holy Spirit God according to Acts 5:3,4?   
      
   3.  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie   
   to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?   
    4.  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold,   
   was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in   
   thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (NKJV)   
      
   I see your connection here. And it sounds logical. But the Holy Ghost   
   is not a person. The Bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit it is a   
   real person, or any part of a triad God. The Bible words for "spirit"   
   come from "ruach" (Hebrew) and "pneuma" (Greek). One of the   
   definitions of "pneuma" is:   
      
   "a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze". (Strong's   
   Concordance)   
      
   Thus it is 'a force in motion' like a breeze etc.   
      
   A thorough study of the Bible concerning the "Holy Spirit" shows that   
   the Holy Spirit is not a person, but the active force of God. For   
   example, a person can be "filled" with it, (Lu 1:41) "baptized" with   
   it, (Mt 3:11) and "anointed" with it. (Ac 10:38)   
      
   > > God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)   
   >   
   >      Jesus is "a god" (Watchtower John 1:1 [New World Translation]).   
   >   
   >      “Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him,   
   >       “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those   
   >       who have not seen and yet have believed.”” (John 20:28–29, ESV)   
   >   
   > > Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)   
   >   
   >See above. You said the same thing with two different verse references.   
   >Just include both references in one statement.   
   >   
   > > Jesus said must worship and serve ONLY God. (Mt 4:10)   
   >   
   >    • And since He accepted worship as God without rebuking the ones   
   >   
   >        who worshiped Him, He was claiming to be God (Matthew 14:33;   
   >        Matthew 28:9; John 9:38).   
   >   
   >    • The Jews understood this, which is why they tried to stone Him   
   >   
   >        (John 10:33).   
   >   
   > > In Heaven, God is STILL the HEAD of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)   
   >   
   >    • Husband and wife are both equal as children of God (Galatians   
   >   
   >        3:28).   
   >   
   >    • The wife voluntarily submits herself to the husband's authority   
   >   
   >        (Ephesians 5:22).   
   >   
   >    • Submitting to authority does not necessitate inequality of   
   >   
   >        being. It's a voluntary role that promotes unity between   
   >        equals (cf. Philippians 2:6ff.).   
   >   
   > > Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)   
   >   
   >What kind of sophistry is this? He most certainly did not say "not Jesus".   
      
   Do you see not Jesus in quotation marks?   
      
   >   
   >       “And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are   
   >        invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me,   
   >        “These are the true words of God.” Then I fell down at his feet   
   >        to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a   
   >        fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the   
   >        testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is   
   >        the spirit of prophecy.” (Revelation 19:9–10, ESV)   
      
   Even though he was Jesus' angel, his angel said to "worship God", not   
   Jesus. If Jesus was God, he should have said to worship Jesus. BUT HE   
   DIDN'T.   
      
   >   
   >It was the angel who refused worship. He didn't tell anyone not to   
   >worship Jesus.   
   >   
   > > Can you explain them?   
   >   
   >I reject the false premise they have not already been explained at least   
   >30 times or more.   
   >   
   >    • 9785cae6-9783-4518-ab62-75aeda149fa1@christrose.news   
   >    • 5bdc6c74-497d-45f3-85e6-ac3398b07aec@christrose.news   
   >    • 53ff0bef-d9da-417f-8715-8ad7a9334923@christrose.news   
   >    • 9785cae6-9783-4518-ab62-75aeda149fa1@christrose.news   
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   [continued in next message]   
      
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