From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   On 12/22/2025 12:51 AM, Noah Wang wrote:   
   > https://zionintravail.com/   
   >   
   > 1 Peter 4:17 (KJV):   
   > For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and   
   > if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the   
   > gospel of God?   
   >   
   > Thessalonians 2:1-3:   
   > Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except   
   > there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the   
   > son of perdition;   
   > Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that   
   > is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing   
   > himself that he is God.   
   >   
   > Matthew 24:14:   
   > And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a   
   > witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.   
   >   
   > 1 Thessalonians 2:14:   
   > For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in   
   > Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of   
   > your own countrymen.   
   >   
   > Matthew 24:15-16:   
   > When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by   
   > Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him   
   > understand:)   
   > Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:   
   >   
   > Daniel 12:4 KJV:   
   > But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the   
   > time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be   
   > increased.   
      
      
   This promotes the teaching of Harold Camping. He made two predictions   
   about the date of the Lord's return, which proved to be false. A lot of   
   what he taught was correct, but his claims about the church are   
   unsupported from any of the Scriptures you cited.   
      
   As far as how God saves people, He's always saved them by grace, through   
   faith in the gospel (Romans 1:16-17; 10:17; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4;   
   Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4; Galatians).   
      
   The church is the people (1 Corinthians 12:27), not the building or   
   denomination. All those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for   
   salvation are part of the church, and there are still people being saved   
   today (Romans 11:25), until the time of the fullness of the Gentiles be   
   come in.   
      
   The claim “God is ONLY saving outside the churches” directly contradicts   
   the plain teaching of Scripture. The passages cited do not teach that   
   God abandons the church or saves people apart from it. They are being   
   misread, combined without context, and pressed into a conclusion the   
   text never makes.   
      
   1 Peter 4:17   
      
   “For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God…” (1 Peter   
   4:17, ESV).   
      
   Peter speaks to believers undergoing persecution. “Judgment” here means   
   purifying discipline, not rejection. God refines His people first. The   
   verse contrasts believers with “those who do not obey the gospel.” It   
   does not say God stops saving within the church. It assumes the church   
   consists of saved people whom God corrects as sons (Hebrews 12:5–11).   
      
   2 Thessalonians 2:1–3   
      
   “Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless   
   the rebellion comes first…” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, ESV).   
      
   Paul warns about deception before the day of the Lord. He does not say   
   the true church disappears or becomes unsaved. Apostasy means a falling   
   away from truth by some, not the extinction of Christ’s body. Paul later   
   affirms that God saves through belief in the truth (2 Thessalonians   
   2:13–14, ESV).   
      
   Matthew 24:14   
      
   “And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole   
   world…” (Matthew 24:14, ESV).   
      
   This verse affirms worldwide proclamation, not rejection of the church.   
   The risen Christ explicitly entrusted that mission to His disciples and   
   promised to be with them to the end of the age (Matthew 28:18–20, ESV).   
   Scripture never presents an alternative saving institution outside   
   Christ’s assembled people.   
      
   1 Thessalonians 2:14   
      
   “For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ   
   Jesus…” (1 Thessalonians 2:14, ESV).   
      
   This verse directly undermines the claim. Paul praises churches as   
   genuine examples of believers “in Christ Jesus.” He does not distance   
   salvation from churches. He locates salvation within them.   
      
   Matthew 24:15–16   
      
   “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains” (Matthew 24:16,   
   ESV).   
      
   This is a specific historical and prophetic instruction tied to Judea   
   and the abomination of desolation. It is not a command to abandon the   
   church. It concerns physical flight from judgment, not spiritual   
   separation from Christ’s body.   
      
   Daniel 12:4   
      
   “Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase” (Daniel 12:4,   
   ESV).   
      
   This describes increased activity and understanding near the end, not a   
   new salvation method. Daniel says nothing about God saving people apart   
   from His covenant people.   
      
   The consistent biblical teaching   
      
   God saves sinners through the gospel of Christ’s death and resurrection   
   (1 Corinthians 15:1–4, ESV). Christ saves people into one body, not into   
   isolation (1 Corinthians 12:13, ESV). He loves the church and gave   
   Himself for her (Ephesians 5:25, ESV). The church stands as “the   
   household of God…a pillar and buttress of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15, ESV).   
      
   Yes, false teachers arise. Yes, some assemblies abandon truth. Scripture   
   warns about that repeatedly (Acts 20:29–30, ESV). But Scripture never   
   teaches that God saves only outside the church. Instead, God calls   
   believers to hold fast to sound doctrine, to test teachers, and to   
   remain faithful within Christ’s body (Hebrews 10:23–25, ESV).   
      
   Conclusion   
      
   The claim depends on fear-driven proof-texting, not careful exegesis.   
   Judgment begins with God’s people to purify them, not to replace them.   
   Apostasy proves the need for discernment, not separation from the   
   church. God saves sinners by grace through faith in Christ and places   
   them into His church, not away from it (Ephesians 2:8–10; 2:19–22, ESV).   
      
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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