XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.religion.christian   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   ========================================   
   Mon, 29 Dec 2025 07:48:29 -0500   
   <04p4lk5sdbd812ae5lfddt6gepke5j1ldh@4ax.com>   
   Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   >> It clearly shows that it remains a "lie", even though the people   
   >> "believe" it to be true. What a person believes about the "lie" doesn't   
   >> change make it to "the truth" or an "innocent error" simply because they   
   >> hold it to be true. A "lie" remains a lie, whether people believe it to   
   >> be true or not.   
      
   Merriam-Webster   
      
         "b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be   
          believed true by the speaker or writer." (merriam-webster.com)   
      
      
   > I'll go by Merriam-Webster.   
      
   Then why do you disagree with a definition which both the Bible and   
   Merriam have agreed on?   
      
   Observe the hypocrisy:   
   ========================================   
   Sat, 20 Dec 2025 11:12:03 -0500   
   <1aidkkp2o2lgkc2bpj51lfdq2ng22bbgcg@4ax.com>   
   Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   > The Bible says Jesus died on an upright pole. (even a tree) Period. No   
   > amount of other reasoning will change that.   
      
   Here, "No amount of other reasoning" will change what the Bible says.   
   "Period".   
      
   But when the Bible says,   
      
         "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they   
          should believe a lie..." (2 Thessalonians 2:11).   
      
   you now suddenly contend that ANY extra-biblical definition you can find   
   which contradicts what the Bible shows, constitutes a valid   
   understanding of the word.   
      
   The Bible clearly calls the falsehood that people will "believe" a   
   "lie". It doesn't change the fact that the content of their belief is   
   "lie", simply because they "believe" it to be true.   
      
   You promote CONFUSION and LIES!   
      
         • So much for your "staurus" claim, you waffling hypocrite. When   
           you wanted to maintain that a staurus can't include a   
           patibulum, you acted as if no other understanding could be   
           added other than what the Bible directly states. Now that the   
           Bible refutes your lies by showing that people can "believe" a   
           "lie", you want to fall back on an extra-biblical definition.   
      
         • You seek to confuse the noun form with the verb form. Lie   
           (noun) is the substance of what you claim. "Lie" (verb) is   
           whether or not you believe it to be true. The content of your   
           claims (noun) when false, remains a "lie", whether you believe   
           it to be true or not. The act of telling what you believe to be   
           true (verb) is only a "lie" if you seek to mislead.   
      
         • Webster confirms this understanding:   
      
         	Lie (Noun) b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or   
            may not be believed true by the speaker or writer the lies we   
            tell ourselves to feel better historical records containing   
            numerous lies   
      
   No need for you to respond to this, unless you're trying to brainwash   
   people by repeating refuted lies.   
      
      
   > Your misapplication of 2 Thess 2:11 does   
   > not negate the Dictionary definition.   
      
      
   You've demonstrated no misapplication. It plainly states the people   
   "believe" a "lie". The content of their belief, whether they believe it   
   or not, is a "lie". It doesn't become "an innocent error", simply   
   because they believe it.   
      
   Works Cited   
      
   Merriam-Webster.com. "LIE Definition ". Merriam-webster,   
   https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie. Accessed 29 December. 2025.   
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
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