From: gonzo@nomail.net   
      
   Moyehoist  wrote:   
      
   > >You seem to believe that the people on the photos have suffered nothing   
   > >apart from being photographed. A large number of testimonies from   
   > >prisoners tell a different story.  Innocent poeple being - yes-   
   > >tortured.   
   >   
   > I agree with everything above except the last two words.   
   >   
   > I did not say that they did not suffer.  But the suffering is not torture and   
   > they should suffer as they are terrorists fighting against our war for the   
   > common good.   
      
   i disagree on two counts:   
      
   1) I have no reason to believe that all the prisoners ( or the larger   
   aprt of them)  are "terrorists",  or indeed that they have taken part in   
   resistance to the illegal occupation of their country by american-led   
   forces.   
      
   2) I am sure that they have not suffered torture.   
   Even by your definiton -  grievous bodily harm -  there is heavy torture   
   going on:  mutilation, rape, electrical shocks, beatings - authorized   
   from the top.   
      
   But to return to Orwell:   
   According to your quaint definition of torture  Winston sSmith was not   
   tortured by the rat-cage until the rats actuall bit him. Another   
   reasonable definiton of torture would include the time from the cage was   
   unveiled, and the probability of rat attack became evident.  The purpose   
   of torture is not so much to infligt pain as to degrade, humiliate and   
   dehumanize the prisoners.   
      
   >   
   > We are at an impasse and we can only agree to disagree.   
   >   
   > However, I predict that we will increase the common good after the defeat of   
   > this enemy just as we did in Nazi germany, imperial japan, the soviet union,   
   > and yugoslavia.   
   >   
   > Do you disagree with this prediction?   
      
   As most observers do, I believe that american atrocities and general   
   insensitivy in Iraq has already significantly increased recruitment to   
   Al Qaeda and similar groups, and is significantly increasing the   
   probability of furure terrorist activities all over the world.   
      
   --   
   jan bojer vindheim   
   http://vindheim.net   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)