From: WORD_CHEMIST@HOTMAIL.COM   
      
    wrote in message news:   
   >   
   > As a member of a multicultural, multiethic, multinational family   
   > myself, I am not terribly sympathetic to your ideas, because I hold   
   > that family is family regardless of ethnicity, skin color, passport,   
   > place of birth etc.   
      
   Of course. How does that impact on my 'ideas' (which you have assumed it   
   seems to me)?   
      
      
    Also I have lived in three countries, and have   
   > citizenship of both the USA and the EU--for what it is worth.   
   >   
      
   I don't see what it brings to this conversation since your principal idea is   
   that of class war.   
      
      
   > I don't really see how you can market a party as "pro British" or "pro   
   > English" without it being interpreted as pro-white and anti-Welsh, even   
   > if your intention is to exclude bigotry.   
      
   Well then you have little experience of how parties run. The Labour Party is   
   manifestly anti-English (implicit it in its strong celtic bias and numbers)   
   and pro-welsh and scotch and they got elected. That is how they manage to   
   simultaneously achieve devolution (England has less say in their affairs   
   while their say in English affairs remains the same) while surrendering more   
   English power to Brussels.   
      
      
   >   
   > You are probably too young to remember how rigid British society was   
   > only a few decades ago, when speaking with a regional accent or eating   
   > your peas off the front of the fork could mean eternal damnation and a   
   > lifetime as an office boy at two pounds ten shillings a week. (see   
   > Such, Such Were the Joys).   
      
   Nothing much has changed for the ordinary man. There is still a class   
   system, just with a greater degree of caste subdivisions. There always will   
   be. Human society spontaneously evolves into it. I would be moronic if I   
   were to accept everything that was wrong now because of the naunces of the   
   class system then. When I say that the crime and disorder has increased   
   massively in the last fifty years I do not say that we should somehow return   
   to the bad things of the past - only someone with an addiction of vague and   
   rosy-tinted abstracts like yourself would be silly enough to impute that.   
   Lefties always do this and it does them no favours. To take your reaction to   
   its logical conclusion then you are saying that we have nothing to learn   
   from the past. God help us if that is the case.   
      
   For the ordinary man in the street life in England is more of a rip off now   
   than it has been for a long time. You may think that easy access to cocaine   
   and pornography and leisure wear for example makes the rip-off more   
   palatable. If you are uncivilised and ignorant - and socialist   
   comprehensives have provided that - then likely you will feel that way. The   
   mid-century leftists, Orwell among them, wanted fairness and decency and who   
   can blame them. In looking over what they believed and what they did, it   
   becomes clear that there have been lots of unintended consequences. My   
   annoyance comes when present day leftists (a woollier, more didactic and   
   humourless breed by far) refuse to see any of the unintended consequences   
   and demonize anyone who questions it with stale sterotypes that might just   
   have done service in 1968.   
      
      
   >   
   > One of the reasons I left Britain many moons ago was to get away from   
   > the oppressive class system   
      
   It hasn't changed, mate! It's *appearance* has dramatically, but the new   
   nuances are if anything uglier.   
      
      
   , so in my opinion the good old days never   
   > existed   
      
   I have never used the expression good old days. I'm not a believe in them. I   
   am interested in what we can learn from the past and in terms of crime,   
   violence and disorder and even in aesthetics literature I think there's a   
   lot to be learned from them. For example, if you were the 70 year old man   
   kicked to death in a Midlands town recently by three blacks just out of   
   puberty and smoking marijuana you might reasonably think as your skull was   
   cracking under the blows that in the old days you would have been far less   
   likely to be put to death in the street by children on drugs who, it turns   
   out, have the usual life story of an ethnic child villain: absent father,   
   morality free upbringing, drugs openly avalaible on the streets, hog-tied   
   education authority, supine legal profession, hog-tied police force. All   
   things that are the upshot of your cultural revolution about the way people   
   eat peas.   
      
      
   >and things are much better now than they were   
      
   That depends entirely on where you are. I expect it looks rosy from Florida.   
      
   . However, you   
   > are certainly not alone in your views. Tuning in to Any Answers on   
   > Radio 4 suggests that ROBBIE's  Canutian   
      
   Does accepting that things have gone wrong and that the past can be learned   
   from make one a Canute? I think that view is childish and its holder a true   
   reactionary.   
      
      
    party would do very well with   
   > certain sections of the population, especially those who are well off   
      
   I'm poor and I speak to lots of poor people. Not many of them share your   
   panglossian view.   
      
   ROBBIE   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)